Tolkien's Racial and Polictical Implications

[Karia]

Hi,
I am new to this forum and I am preparing a text response on the racial and political themes in "The Hobbit" and in "The Lord of the Rings". Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[andustar]

well, I haven't got much to say about this myself, but you might find this useful if you haven't seen it already, also look around that area of tor.n there will be lots of other stuff, which I'm not going to bother to link to

[Ben]

Welcome to the board.

One thing you might want to explore is how all the "swarthy men" (easterlings, etc) were evil and on the side of Sauron while the white men were the good guys...

[Ñólendil]

Which of course is not true. There were light skinned and swarthy people on both sides of the coin, you'll find if you read carefully. No skin colour whatsoever is given to the Easterlings we see in the narrative of the Lord of the Rings that I am aware of, although the Wainriders are called 'white-skins' in Tal-Elmar (Peoples of Middle-earth, Vol. XII of History of Middle-earth).

Remember those dun-skinned wild men from the Dunland fells, marching under the White Hand of Saruman? The Bree-folk were descended from them and thus also dun-skinned. Speaking of which, the Dead Men of Dunharrow, many peoples in Gondor, the Dunlendings, the Men of Bree-land, secretive hunter folk on the Cape of Eryn Vorn, the Halethrim, they all come from the same people.

Of Dwarves and Men, also published in my beloved Vol. XII reveals that some of the Beorians were swarthy. No, they weren't shunned from society and regarded as spies of Morgoth. They were just swarthy Beorians. In fact that whole Race were somewhat darker in skin than the related Marachians.

If you read the Minas Tirith chapter carefully, you may notice hosts of swarthy Men marching into the City for war against the Enemy. You may want to note the evil Black Númenóreans were mostly pale-skinned, of the House of Marach, thus probably generally golden haired as well.

There are countless goodly swarthy people and countless wicked white people. Similarly there are countless goodly white people and countless wicked swarthy people. The Middle-earth Tolkien 'discovered' is a world of innumerable shades of grey, just like ours.

[bombcar]

In fact, Sam is said to have brown hands, and the chapter where he wonders about the dead man from the south, shows that Tolkien is not racist, unless it is against orcs, which are actually another race.

[samwise of the shire]

It's not the dark skin that makes them evil nor the fact they're from the south it's the fact that they're fighting against Middle Earth.But what of Saruman?He's white and evil and he fights against ME so it goes both ways like Inoldonil said. The thing that gets me is that swarthy doesnt JUST mean dark it can also mean tawney or of a tawney complexion so most likely the Beornings and the Bree Men were Tawney or tan because they work in the fields and all that and when you work in the sun you become swarthy or tan. BTW Bombcar I think it most likely Sam was brown because of his work in the garden.
As for Politics.The government in LOTR could be considered a democracy but a democracy is unfair to the people and Aragorn is wise and just in his judgment so I think that it is a just government it's not a republic but it's not a democracy because Aragorn listens to the cries of his people,so say it is a just government that rules Middle Earth.
sam

er, miss samwise, that would be a monarchy...lovingly, your mom

[Ñólendil]

In fact, Sam is said to have brown hands, and the chapter where he wonders about the dead man from the south, shows that Tolkien is not racist, unless it is against orcs, which are actually another race.

Yes, all the Harfoots among the Hobbits had nut-brown skin. Bombadil is said to have brown hands too.

[ringbearer]

You must remember the era of Tolkien, and England's general mistrust of anything foreign. I do not think he was racist at all!

[Mr Underhill]

Karia-

Don't read too much into it. You know racism when you see it. If you have to scour LotR page by page with a highlighter to find obscure references, that should tell you something. Don't be misled by those who are so crazed about it that they point fingers where none are deserved, or even worse, don't become one of those people yourself.

[juntel]

"swarthy" men from the far south, ridding elephants...

nah! let's not read too much into that...

[Selwythe]

Here, I posted this some time back at Dunedain's Camp

I refer to the posts of Harad and other evil lands being metaphored as Asia and Africa.

In the LoTR movie site, there's an interview with Peter Jackson. He says that this portrayal of blacks as allies of the enemy and white as elves and men should not be interpreted as it seems. Because when Tolkien wrote the book, he wanted it as separate from reality as possible, it was during the period of the World Wars and he wanted it as different from reality as possible. Thus, this 'seeming' racism, Sam's homosexual bordering to Frodo and the weak portrayal of women should not be interpreted in modern context, but in a fantasy context, where the world and society is different. Jackson said that he personally believed that Tolkien wasn't racist since he was born in South Africa, fought in World Wars and was a professor.

I personally believe that Tolkien overlooked these issues when writing since these issues would not, and should not, be existent in a perfect society. And a perfect society he envisioned when writing the book. Tolkien should have delved on with his work like he did instead of worrying about petty accusations from unjustified book reviewers and politicians. Oh yes, not to mention how Star Wars had the good guys in white and the bad guys in black.

[Ñólendil]

[Edited: I made a post here (but I think Samwise was responding to the one above this), but I have decided it is wiser not to be involved]

[samwise of the shire]

Maybe you have'nt noticed this but back Tolkiens day it was SHAMEFULL to be a homsexual and those that were homesexual had to hide it from being scorned so I dont think that Tolkien would put homesexuality in his works. Let's make the ideas of love sraight here. Agape is what Sam has for his master,unconditional love no matter what Frodo does to him Sam still loves his master and always will.
Has anyone noticed how simalir LOTR is to the Bible? I mean the plot and everything? Redemption is the plot and the characters have obedience,courage,loyalty,kindness,forgivness,love ,trust,honesty,and self sacraficial spirits,but they are also normal people so we can relate ourselves to them. That is so cool.
By the way nut brown is TAN not BLACK,kind of like hispanic or hard working field hand.
Sam

[Comic Book Guy]

Samwise of the Shire is right, Homosexuallity was a very embarrassing thing to have in Tolkiens time. I learnt in history about brothers who were gay and eventually commited suicide because of it. Also remember that Tolkien was a religous Catholic and they were against homosexuallity

[Mr Underhill]

Hannibal rode and elephant as well, Juntel, and I don't think anybody has anything but respect for him. Why does putting somebody on an elephant automatically make a person a racist?

What's going on is that a mold has been created defining racism. Those who are a victim of this robotic formula define the sensation they feel when they are trapped in this mold as "getting the point." They see people outside the mold as racist, simply for the fact that they don't share the same space.

Let me define racism for you: Racism is as racism does. Who is hurt here? The men of the South are not disrespected and nobody is suggesting they're inferior. There is no racism.

Now, liberalism is as liberalism does. A popular and beloved author who is no longer with us to defend himself has his work tarnished by this modern version of a witch hunt, which was McCarthyism 50 years ago, and went by the name of The Inquisition many years before that.

[afro-elf]

By the way nut brown is TAN not BLACK,kind of like hispanic or hard working field hand.

Thats depends on what kind of nut.

Brown is brown. Sam ( Harfoots are browner of skin) LOTR pg 3 prologue .


YO! Whad'up wit dat

Brown skinned Sam gotta be da servant.

BUT he got 'emself a white gurl and was the MASSA of Bag end. You go boyEEE

The word swarthy ,nowdays, has a connotation of Mediterrean/Turkish tones and of unsavory character.

However, I came across a reference form Shakespeare that said something about a swarthy Ethiopian.

Well the they are usually darker than me. ( I'm a nice chocolatety color)



In the SIL Bor and his sons were easterlings and were described as swarthy. ( maybe an excuse for some Barandundain)

I

believe

when the prof used swarthy in the book it was more of the "Turkish" type.

However, I as a RPG fan take the other swarthy meaning so I can play guys like me.

[sepulchrave]

right, here goes....
I do not believe there is racism in the Lord of the Rings. I also do not believe that there is any real evidence for a homosexual relationship between the two hobbits. I do believe that those who are looking for such things may be trying to put a Socio-Psycho-Sexual interpretation to a book to which it is almost impossible to apply. Here we have a book that resembles next to nothing in style that was written later than the medieval period. It is an epic, like the Norse sagas, Icelandic works, Beowulf, and Arthurian literature, about heroes, powerful talismans, quests and wizards. For Heavens sake it is not even this world we are talking about! To attempt to find sexual, psychological and any but the most rudimentary sociological elements within this book, is barking up the wrong tree on a colossal scale. One would be much better served, if one felt drawn to these lines of enquiry, to seek a true "modern" novel, a Steinbeck, Dostoyevsky, Hardy or Joyce; for The Lord of the Rings does not fit the bill. Sorry, but Tolkien would have said exactly the same thing.
There is one thing that should be mentioned, though, in all fairness. My grandfather came from the same generation as Tolkien, and I believe there were certain views that were commonly held by the majority of Englishmen of the time. One must remember that England, with the Empire, had enjoyed an extended period of almost unchallenged supremacy in the world, some three or four hundred years at least, and in the heart of every english school boy was ingrained the idea that "British is always Better", and that it was their Christian duty to bring light to savages in faroff lands, and raise them from their barbaric ways. History has shown the folly and cruelty that came out of this, but if one can understand the mindset, one comes to a point where there are certain things that are implicit, such as this; although I do not see racism, it is clear that both Tolkiens Haradrim and Corsairs, and CS Lewises Calormene, were stereotypical Mohammedan warrior types, As Christians, one Anglican, the other Catholic, they would have a view of the Islamic world that would be coloured completely by their colonial perception. The world they lived in was altogether more different than ours than most realize. If this is racism, then every white man has racists for ancestors, and perhaps that is a theme for another thread!

[Michael Martinez]

The Breelanders and Dunlendings, as well as many of the people of Gondor, were all swarthy-skinned. None of them are portrayed as evil. The Dunlendings are portrayed as misguided, even deceived by Saruman. The white-skinned Rohirrim, however, are portrayed as both heroic and vicious, even hunting Ghan-Buri-Ghan's people for sport.

The second worst villain in the story is Saruman, a white man, whose emblem is the white hand, and whose robes begin as white. Denethor also turns to evil, and he is also a white man.

There is a lot of racism in The Lord of the Rings, but it is expressed by the characters, not the author, and the story shows that racism is a fault to be overcome, or which leads to grave errors of judgement. The appendix deals with some of the racism issues, such as the Kin-Strife, which was the civil war Gondor's nobility fought over the purity of the royal bloodline. The king of mixed-heritage eventually defeated the usurper.

[luinilwen]

i don't think i could cover anything better than sepulchrave!

not only were his books written in a different society, but they were written of a different society also. modern issues (such as political correctness (is that a word???)) are to be explored or manifested in modern texts.

the harry potter books are written in a modern society about a modern society, and so cultural and racial diversity is present, such as having asian and african students at hogwarts. (although i doubt jk rowling is likely to tackle the issue of sexuality in her books - perhaps a wee bit inappropriate!)

that's my two cents

[Arathorn]

Hmm...

I am both "brown skinned" and Catholic and I do not believe that the books are racist.

Some individuals and peoples seem to be against other people and creatures such as orcs and trolls but remember, these are portrayed as having been corrupted by the dark lords Melkor and Sauron and the one ring:

Orcs from Elves
Trolls from Ents
Saruman
even Gollum who used to be Smeagol
as goes the other "tribes" who were closer to their realms.

Also, Tolien's world was written such that cultures didn't trust other cultures. The Lorien people were wary of everyone not from there as goes the shire folk. Celeborn warned against Fangorn and Treebeard warned against Lorien. The Rohirrim was made to be suspicious of outsiders by Saruman.

There are quite a lot of "us against them" sub themes among the races. I'm quite amused at middle earth because its one big sandbox as far as I'm concerned.

Anyway, I have yet to find anyone I know offline who thought of the works racist or took offense. At worst they're just not interested in the works.