Why Pippin says 'gollum, gollum' to Grishnakh

[Lotesse]

This question arises fromthe chapter The Urukhai, out of The Two Towers. I have always wondered about it, and it occurred to me the other day to mention it in the Teacup Cafe - and then stuff happened, and I didn't get a chance to make this thread until now. I had some of you ask me to make the thread, so I guess I'm not the only one around here who has wondered about this!



FOCUS: How is it that Pippin knows to say "gollum, gollum," when he & Merry are being held captive by Grishnakh and Orcish company? Grishnakh gets pissed at Pippin, and he says to them, "Have you got it -either of you?" presumably, of course, Grishnahk was referring to the One Ring, and Pippin gets it in his head to mumble "gollum, gollum," followed by 'Nothing, my precious.' I swear I never remembered those two hobbits ever having been exposed to Smeagol/Gollum before, aside from hearing stories from Bilbo, so how would Pip even know that that was Smeagol/Gollum's weird Ring-having/wanting catchphrase?


OH! And why would Pippin even WANT to tease Grishnakh in the first place. How did Pip even know to say things in the manner of Smeagol, and why would he even want to push Grishnakh's buttons, anyway? Was it something eLSE making him say that? Some weird thought-force from a certain Maia, or - or something?

[littleadanel]

And HERE the thread is!

As for how he knows it, I think peeking into the Red Book plus Sam's account of the Council.

But why it came to his mind? I don't know. It was a dangerous game to play. They couldn't know how Grishnakh would react... *ponders*

[Lotesse]

BUT - does the Red Book even mention the 'gollum' noise in the throat that Gollum liked to do?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I'm not sure that the Red Book would have told Pippin much of the truth anyway. Remember Bilbo's words at the Council.
"I will now tell you all the truth. Not what I wrote in my book or told others." Or something along those lines.

[littleadanel]

True; he didn't write the truth in his book...

But I can imagine that Pip and Merry didn't leave Sam alone until he told everything he had heard at the Council...

[Gordis]

Lotesse is right, it does seem curious. Of course, Bilbo might have told his story over and over again to everyone in the Shire, including young Pip, but still it is not like personal experience.

And how could Pippin know that Grishnakh had ever met Gollum and would recognise the "gollum" thing?

[Nurvingiel]

This is definitely curious.

Originally Posted by littleadanel

True; he didn't write the truth in his book...

But I can imagine that Pip and Merry didn't leave Sam alone until he told everything he had heard at the Council...

But Merry and Pippin spied on Bilbo for some time - that's how they found out about the Ring. Maybe they overheard Bilbo telling Frodo the true account of how he got the Ring.

Didn't Frodo know about that?

As to how he thought of it, I guess clever old Pippin was inspired.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

I'm not sure that the Red Book would have told Pippin much of the truth anyway. Remember Bilbo's words at the Council.
"I will now tell you all the truth. Not what I wrote in my book or told others." Or something along those lines.

He was, however, I think referring to the story that he won the Ring fairly against Gollum.

The Red Book, at least in part, is more or less representative of
The Hobbit, so that I think most of what was in said Hobbit would be in the Red Book. Of course, one must keep in mind the matter of the original Hobbit.

Originally Posted by Lotesse

The thing is, none of this explains how Pippin would have the innate, very specific understanding of how to say 'gollum, gollum' and to act just like Gollum

But Bilbo told the story often, did he not? Merely a warped version in which he won the Ring in a fair competition. Therefore, it seems likely that he would have imitated Gollum's throat-sounds, and therefore that Pippin would recall it.

As Forkbeard says, QED.

[Elfhelm]

I agree. When Merry and Pippin catch up to Sam and Frodo, it is revealed that Sam was spying for quite some time and telling Merry and Pippin about the discussions between Frodo and Gandalf. I'd have to look in the books which are at home, but Pippin knew about Gollum and the Ring from very early on.

[Jon S.]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

How is it that Pippin knows to say "gollum, gollum," when he & Merry are being held captive by Grishnakh and Orcish company? Grishnakh gets pissed at Pippin, and he says to them, "Have you got it -either of you?" presumably, of course, Grishnahk was referring to the One Ring, and Pippin gets it in his head to mumble "gollum, gollum," followed by 'Nothing, my precious.' I swear I never remembered those two hobbits ever having been exposed to Smeagol/Gollum before, aside from hearing stories from Bilbo, so how would Pip even know that that was Smeagol/Gollum's weird Ring-having/wanting catchphrase?

Wasn't all this discussed in, at a minimum, Frodo's presence at Elrond's council? Hardly seems like a stretch to me that therefore these two other members of the Fellowship - Frodo's kin and friends - would have learned it as well.