Well Learnt Tolkien Lover only.. ok, you can all come!

[LuthienTinuviel]

i was having a conversation with a very nice tolkien addict like myself when i think we stumbled upon something.. here is our conversation..

Arallathan: as if "Spirit of Fire" ever had a chance with "Tree Brilliance"

Laurelindorinian: i like Luthien Tinuviel

Laurelindorinian: haha

Arallathan: Galad = Tree, Ril or Riel = Brilliance

Laurelindorinian: does't Galad mean light though

Arallathan: Galad, no

Arallathan: Galadhrim

Arallathan: Tree-people

Arallathan: or Peoples of the tree

Laurelindorinian: i thought it was Ost or Orn or something of that nature that meant tree

Arallathan: Ost-in-Edhel = City of the Jewel-Smiths

Arallathan: Ost = City

Laurelindorinian: oh it's orn, like the end of fang orn

Laurelindorinian: that's in the back of the sil where it ways that

Arallathan: wait a sec, i'll just check

Laurelindorinian: haha

Laurelindorinian: see i thought galad meant light, as in Gil Galad, whos name literally means "star Light

Laurelindorinian: "

Arallathan: orn does mean tree, as well

Laurelindorinian: well tolkien was human,

Arallathan: but i know Galadhrim or Galadhremmin meant "People of the Tree"

Laurelindorinian: there's mnany double meanings to alot of words and prefixes and suffixes

Laurelindorinian: yea, i know your right on that one..

Arallathan: It depends on where abouts the word is used in conjunction with another word

Laurelindorinian: yea, most likeley

end converstaion.
ok, now .. talk amongst yourselves...

[Sminty_Smeagol]

Are they both the same form of Elvish? If not, the word might have a different meaning...

[Ñólendil]

In full "Galadriel" means "a maiden crowned with a festival garland of bright radiance", it was in reference to her hair in Valinor. It's a translation of Alatáriel, which belongs to Telerin, the language of the Teleri of Valinor (which in the opinion of the Ñoldor was a dialect of Quenya).

Galad means light, galadh means tree. In the first editions of the Lord of the Rings galadh appeared as galad, and there's where a lot of the confusion comes from. Orn had fallen out of common use in Sindarin, though it survived in poetry and names. In Quenya an alda was any sort of tree and an ornë was a smaller, more slender tree, "like a beech or rowan".

Arallathan is thus mistaken, he or she confused galad and galadh.

[Elbereth]

Wow, Nolendil, a lingusist after my own heart!
Galad and galadh are not the same thing, you're right, 'galadhremmin ennorath' in the Elberth Gilithioniel chant that Gildor and his folk sing means 'tree-woven lands of middle-earth'. It also states in the Silmarillion that some Elves confused 'galad' with 'galadh' and so altered the name to 'Galadhriel'. El and gil both means star, though in the original LotR el meant both elf and star. Tolkien got a lot of letters with questions about this. One question, though, if orne means tree, then Aragorn translate into something like 'tree-king' doesn't it?

[ArwenEvenstar]

huh

[Ñólendil]

Elbereth, I am no linguist at all! I just read the words of real linguists and go from there.

Tolkien was asked in a letter about the meaning of the name "Aragorn". He said it had no connexion with trees, though he also said it's not clearly interpretable. In one early draft of A Part Of The Tale Of Aragorn And Arwen, it is stated that his name means "noble valour". It's the only source we have for the meaning of "Aragorn". I suppose we're really looking at gorn here, not orn.

Arwen, what are you confused about?

[Earniel]

Originally posted by Elbereth
Galad and galadh are not the same thing, you're right, 'galadhremmin ennorath' in the Elberth Gilithioniel chant that Gildor and his folk sing means 'tree-woven lands of middle-earth'. It also states in the Silmarillion that some Elves confused 'galad' with 'galadh' and so altered the name to 'Galadhriel'.

Now I can be wrong about this but I remember reading somewhere (I think 'Letters') that 'galad' and 'galadh' did mean the same. I thought that Tolkien first used the -dh sound but dropped the 'h' when he realised it wasn't used in English.

[Ñólendil]

You're almost right, you've got it backwards. In the original it was printed as galad rather than galadh, but Tolkien altered this. Hence tree is "galadh", not "galad", and the two are seperate words.

[Earniel]

Aha! Thanks, I feel enlightened now.

[Nariel]

From the Silmarillion, second edition, page 360.

"kal-(gal-) This root, meaning 'shine' appears in Calacirya, Calaquendi, Tar-calion, galvorn, Gil-galad, Galadriel. The last two names have no connexion with the Sindarin galadh 'tree', although in the case of Galadriel such a connexion was often made, and the name altered to Galadhriel. In the High-elven speech her name was Al(a)tariel, derived from alata 'radiance' (sindarin galadh) and riel 'garlanded maiden' (from root rig- 'twine, wreathe'):the whole meaning 'maiden crowned with a radiant garland', referring to her hair. calen (galen) 'green' is etymologically 'bright', and derives from this the root; see also aglar."

[markedel]

There is something about a 'joke' in Lorien about calling themselves 'galadrim' after Galadriel though galadhrim is unrelated.

[DraztiK]

I suppose we're really looking at gorn here, not orn.

I suppose we're NOT, cause Aragorn is presumably of Adûnaic origin.

[Ñólendil]

"Aragorn" belongs or is meant to belong to Sindarin, not Adûnaic. The Dúnedain of the North took names in Sindarin, and the line of the old Kings had the prefix of "ara", which is Sindarin for "noble".

[Elbereth]

Originally posted by Nariel
"kal-(gal-) This root, meaning 'shine' appears in Calacirya, Calaquendi, Tar-calion, galvorn, Gil-galad, Galadriel. The last two names have no connexion with the Sindarin galadh 'tree', although in the case of Galadriel such a connexion was often made, and the name altered to Galadhriel. In the High-elven speech her name was Al(a)tariel, derived from alata 'radiance' (sindarin galadh) and riel 'garlanded maiden' (from root rig- 'twine, wreathe'):the whole meaning 'maiden crowned with a radiant garland', referring to her hair. calen (galen) 'green' is etymologically 'bright', and derives from this the root; see also aglar." [/B]

So basically you cannot tell if galadh means raidance or tree?