Religon/Christinanity

Hello people! I haven't been here much since last spring, but it's great to be here and see so many new faces. I have some input to this thread. I'll try to keep it short.

I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (commonly known as Mormons). We believe that the original church organized by Christ was lost in the Old World before AD 100. When the Apostles died, the authority Christ had given them was discontinued, and from then on everyone has just had to interpret the Bible the best they could. Some have done a very good job and most churches have some of the truth.

But none had the whole truth until the 1820's, when an angel came to Joseph Smith in rural New York, and gave him a record made by prophets in ancient America: The Book of Mormon. They had the same church and authority that had existed since the time of Adam. Joseph translated this record, received the ordinances and the Priesthood, and restored the Church of Jesus Christ to the earth in the Latter Days. We have a prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, and 12 Apostles. Now this church has grown to over 10 million members, half of them outside the US. We have missionaries all over the world--one of them is my older sister.

I believe that we all existed before we were born. We are spirit children of Heavenly Father and Mother, and we decided to come to Earth to gain physical bodies, make mistakes, and perfect ourselves. Nobody's perfect, but if we do our best and repent of all our sins, then Christ's atonement makes up the rest of the requirement, and we can be exalted, and actually become gods. If we don't, we will still be resurrected and have perfect, incorruptible bodies, but we will also have perfect memories, and a fresh knowledge of all our guilt.

We believe that families can be together forever, and this is why we have temples. Families are sealed together in temples, and can even be sealed to members who have already died.

I believe that Christ (Jehovah) is the Son of Heavenly Father (Elohim). They are separate people, but one in purpose, and we can become one in purpose with them too as we perfect ourselves. God created the Earth, as well as an infinite number of other worlds. I believe (though I don't know how) that He organized the laws of nature-chemistry, physics, biology, etc. Was it possible for Mary to conceive without having sexual relations? Of course! God created the laws of biology, and can alter them at His will.

Well, I'm sorry it took so long, but I thought I should offer my beliefs on these subjects. I will probably come here again soon. In the meantime if you have any questions email me or look at the Church's website: www.lds.org

Elanor. I have loved the LDS television commercials through the years! I wish Baptists would run some ads like that!

EDIT: Sorry for the all bold post, that was an HTML vs EZCODE error! But it didn't look terrible...
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Let's see, so far on ENTMOOT, I've seen Reincarnationists, Traditional Christians from the Big Three sects, Mormons, Agnostics/Atheists, there may be more!

Now might be a good time to say this:

Having dealt with this sort of thing on a talkshow before, let me admonish everyone to keep it more than clean!

None of us would honor the God we claim to follow, if we engage in a flame war about one another's beliefs!

I think simple discussion and presentation of faith would be a fine thing here, but these things too easily degenerate into heated word-chopping disputes over minutia.

It would be better here, in my recommendation, that we each content ourselves with presenting our own views in a positive way, with entering into only the most respectful discussions with others who differ, and that we not seek to take on the burden of criticizing the estranged or completely different faiths of others.

That would not be productive at all, at all!

I thank you all in advance for your kindly consideration of one

JL "I believe in Heaven because I have seen Hell."

That's funny cause HeLL has been my official non-LOTR nick for about 4 years now...

for "misericordious", sorry, i tought that was the word i wanted but it seems it doesn't exist in english, so in french "miséricordieux" means forgiving but, the "forgiving" is stronger...

Aryne and Johnny
You want the thruth? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE THRUTH!

I'm praying the creator, it's just that I don't need religion between me and Him.

"so in french "miséricordieux" means forgiving but, the "forgiving" is stronger..."

Perhaps "merciful"?

Oh, and I know it's a real word... the hospital I was born in was named the Misericordia.

"I'm praying the creator, it's just that I don't need religion between me and Him."

I agree with you completely.

What was that verse...

Ah, there we go. Hebrews 7... the NIV has a sort of roundabout way of getting to the point.

Wow, I have so much to respond to. Hope I don't forget anything.

Greek and Russian Orthodoxy are really the same thing, as are all the branches. Sadly, humans can corrupt anything, including the Church. That's why the Orthodox Church is seperated into different national groups, though from my point of view this is not nearly as bad as a whole group leaving the Church like what happened in 1054.
The Coptic Church considers itself Orthodox and in most ways is. There are some differences which some people consider important but which I do not.

Ben, I consider mythology a very important part of any religious study. The ancient Greeks and Romans were descended from Adam and Eve, and even Noah, just like the Jews were. Therefore these people have the same history. Sure, some things were lost over time since they were not blessed with a complete history the way Moses was, but they still retained much of the truth. They are therefore a very interesting read for any bible scholar.

Shan, the Theotokos is the Mother of God. It's Russian I believe.

"Isn't God misericordious and good? wouldn't he pardon me for not believing in him? Why is that so If he wouldn't allow me to heaven, then he would not be perfect..."

Many people accuse God of failing when they fall. God loves us so much (cue Touched by an Angel music ) and if you open your eyes and look around (which sadly no one really seems to do enough any more) you see how much he helps us. But God gave us free will, that's what makes us trully great, and also what makes it possible for us to fall. We are above the animals in that we can chose, but with that wonderfull gift comes a responsibility.

JL, please don't bring science into the matter of Mary's conception. There's nothing scientific about it

"JL, please don't bring science into the matter of Mary's conception. There's nothing scientific about it"

"Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, fool?"

Oh, and as far as Mormonism goes... scratch that, I'm not going there.

Matthew 5:22 ...But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

...and thanks for not going there.

That verse has inspired many a lively debate over the accuracy of the translation of the word "fool".

I guess that more properly, the quote should read...

"Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, foo'?"

i really like Gil's statement. i for one consider that my faith is the same as that of the orthodox and other christian churches. there are some slight differences (often due to old political or "human" conflicts), but we agree in almost all. i pray every day for the union of the churches though i feel that in spirit we are all already one. only that as John Paul II says, the separation of our churches can be a scandal for those who don't believe, because we're not giving a true image of Christ's Mystic Body.

Tater, Theotókos is not russian, it is Greek: Theo=Good + tókos=Mother. 'tis part of one of those bunch of reasures that greek theology has wrought.

Thanks FM, I knew it was one of the two

Many people may not understand this, but I think unity of the Church would not be a good thing at this stage. We have so many differences, and resolving them all would not be possible. Sadly, human nature gets in the way of spirituality

Oh, btw I'm not saying Human Nature is a bad thing, that's God's wonderful gift to us

I don't think it's a bad thing, but it is certainly a broken and twisted thing.

Hrrmm. Hasty answer Please elaborate.

Hoooom. Roomty toom. Hooom hom. Hoom.


Human Nature:
Created in the image of God, but altered, changed, Fallen.
A little lower than the angels. Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound (no, that was someone else).

Well, I think you get the point. There is something wonderful about each and every one of us, and yet we all have such potential for wrong, and each of us reach some degree of that in our own stumbles and falls. And that's the best of us. Human Nature also is capable of depredations indeed so fearsome that it might be the end of all flesh one day...

We were not made that way, it's a result of the fall. We were made to be like God, but He has free will and so he gave us this gift which can be abused but also has the potential for greatness.

<FLANDERS>Okie diddly dokie!</FLANDERS>

Yep! Lot's of ways to express it, but that's it esentially.

um,whatever but a lot of folks here in western europe make jokes about "those folly americans,of whom 50% of the christians there believes that the Bible is completely true harharharhar,how stupid of them,harhar".I personally think laughing at someones beliefs is pretty rude,and it probably is,but i think that when you look at the Bible critically,you find a lot of contradictions,f.e. gen,1 and gen,2:in 1 god makes animals first and in 2 humans,or the description of the garden of eden,esp. the rivers that surround it,or "God" creating man "in his image"(what could He do with lungs? or idunno the english word but that little knob in your stomach with which you were connected with your mum as a foetus,God didn't have a mother after all) etc. Here christians more look at it as a spiritual guide.
I personally don't know about religion,as I haven't seen or felt any other 'miracles' than when I open a book, it sometimes opens at exactly the page i was searching for,
and besides how do you know that catholic christianity is the True Religion?
About creationists,why would there be fossils? as a trick of "God"? and falling for a trick of the Divine(as an evolutionist) would make you go to hell?

well,that's not half as long as I wanted to make it,and what i did make is not half as clear as I wanted to,but whatever.That's just my opinion.

I personally think laughing at someones beliefs is pretty rude

And I hope we don't see that on this thread!


...christians there [America] believes that the Bible is completely true...when you look at the Bible critically,you find a lot of contradictions...Here [Western Europe] christians more look at it as a spiritual guide.

The crucial (literally) issue is the belief in Jesus as the Son of God and surrenduring to him and following with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. This is the Truth that can be found easily enough. I choose not to argue the rest of it. It is unessential.

The next most crucial issue is about what Christians do with their faith. Are they loving one another and their enemies? Are they discipling themselves and others? Are they working to complete the Great Commission?

Everything else comes after that. Or need not come at all.

If a Christian does not teach or believe these central things, if they will not attempt them, if they will not live them, then we are not discussing a Christian.

I do not know what Christians in Western Europe are like, but here, in the Bible Belt of America, there are a lot of serious ones who try to live that just that way, whatever other peculiar notions they may or may not have.

We have our share here of Christians who mock their brethren, slackers who do little to advance the cause of Christ, self-absorbed folk who esteem themselves more highly than others, and individuals who have little real love in them for God, themselves, or anyone else.

How about over there in Western Europe?

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NOTE: I'm sure I missed a lot of specifics about what defines the Way, but this is the general idea! :/

guam, you have to realize that Genesis one and two are two different accounts of the same thing which simply concentrate on different parts of the story. There are no contradictions between the two, and being Orthodox I take Genesis literally.

As for being created in God's image, there were changes to humans after we were kicked out of the garden. Obviously, reproductive organs were necessary whereas they were not needed when we did not reproduce. I think that in the fall man lost some of his closeness to God not only in the literal sense but also in his form.

I think we have stumbled onto the Ancient Puzzle that has mystified the Children of Eve since the days of Noah.

Did Adam and Eve have bellybuttons?!