Sorcerors of the line of Elros

[CrazySquirrel]

Hello, mooters!

It seems I have got a good idea. Well, maybe not THAT good, but let us see!
(at least Olmer and Gordis both thought it were good, or so I understood...)

I think that ALL the HUMAN sorcerors and/or prophets that are ever mentioned by Tolkien BELONG to the LINE OF ELROS. Or are quite likely to belong to it. That line has elven blood and more important MAIA blood (from Melian).

I propose we do like that: let's make the complete list of persons (MEN AND WOMAN -not 100% elves) that were ever suspected of paranormal abilities and then check them one by one.

So here goes:
Luthien - very powerful sorceress!
Dior???
Elwing -sorceress
Elrond - sorceror - yes. Prophet for sure!
Elros -???
Tar - Aldarion's father (UT) prophet yes.
Other Kings of Numenor???

Witch-King - Sorceror YES, prophet yes?(predicted Grima's fate in UT)
Tar Palantir - prophet YES

Elendil ??
Anarion ??
Isildur - Sorceror YES! (ask the poor people of the Mountains) Prophet - yes?

Beruthiel - Was she of the Line of Elros? - SORCERESS!

Malbeth the Seer (could be Arvedui's relative) sorceror ? Prophet - YES!

Gilraen's mother (a descendant of Valandil) Prophet - yes
Gilraen's father - as well

Aragorn - prophet
And, of course, "the hands of the King are the hands of a healer"

Now help me, please: I must have forgotten a lot of guys!

Any ideas?

[Maerbenn]

Originally Posted by CrazySquirrel

I think that ALL the HUMAN sorcerors and/or prophets that are ever mentioned by Tolkien BELONG to the LINE OF ELROS. Or are quite likely to belong to it.

What about these?

Beorn (“a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician”—The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien no. 144)
The Drúedain (“they had, or were credited with, strange or magical powers”—‘The Drúedain’, Unfinished Tales)

Edit—this thread would have been perfect for the Middle Earth [sic] forum...

[Gordis]

Interesting thoughts CS!

Beruthiel may have been a descendent of Herumor or Fuinur and as they were Numenorean Lords they probably were of Elros's line.
Actually she must have been of royal blood, unles how could the King Tarannon have married her?

Originally Posted by Maerbenn

What about these?
Beorn (“a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician”—The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien no. 144)
The Drúedain (“they had, or were credited with, strange or magical powers”—‘The Drúedain’, Unfinished Tales)

Are you sure, Maerbenn, that Beorn was a MAN?
The druedain were able to sit still for a very long time and sense danger (vaguely as animals do), but was this acually MAGIC?

[Lefty Scaevola]

I noted in a SIL thread that most Human prophets seemd to be descended from the Half-elven or were closely associated with the Noldor in Beleriand, and had come under their doom/fate. And theorized that the incidence prophecy among mortals was link to how closely they were bound to the fate of the Elves who were inescapabley bound to the fate of the world.

Of course the more mudane explanation is the the of mortals we read stories of are mostly those of the royal and noble descendants of the Half-Elven, and thoses closely connected to the Eldar, and we just do not get to hear about the mudane prophecies put forth by vast majoirty of humans.

[Maerbenn]

Originally Posted by gordis

Are you sure, Maerbenn, that Beorn was a MAN?

I should have extended my quote a little:

Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man.

(posted at least 3 times already on this message board)

Originally Posted by gordis

The Drúedain were able to sit still for a very long time and sense danger (vaguely as animals do), but was this acually MAGIC?

I suppose it is up for interpretation. But they had at least one other strange ability:

They made also images of themselves and placed them at the entrances to tracks or at turnings of woodland paths. These they called ‘watch-stones’; ... each representing a Drúadan, larger than the life, squatting heavily upon a dead Orc. These figures served not merely as insults to their enemies; for the Orcs feared them and believed them to be filled with the malice of the Oghor-hai (for so they named the Drúedain), and able to hold communication with them. Therefore they seldom dared to touch them, or to try to destroy them, and unless in great numbers would turn back at a ‘watch-stone’ and go no further.

Remember the story ‘The Faithful Stone’?

[Gordis]

Thanks for the quotes, Maerbenn.
Actually I don't think Beorn is important to this thread. He is a character from The Hobbit and stands a little apart from other Tolkien characters with well defined origin and species characteristics.

He is a skin-changer. He changes his skin; sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard. I cannot tell you much more, though that ought to be enough. Some say that he is a bear descended from the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came. Others say that he is a man descended from the first men who lived before Smaug or the other dragons came into this part of the world, and before the goblins came into the hills out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the last is the true tale. He is not the sort of person to ask questions of.

I think on order to test the proposed theory it is much more important to check the other human characters described in the Sil that were NOT descended from Melian. There is quite a lot of them, Hador and Haleth, Beor and Marach, Hurin and Huor, Turin and Tuor and Beren. Was any of them a sorceror or a prophet?
Please, Mooters who have recently read Silmarillion, help!

[Last Child of Ungoliant]

my, what an interesting read this thread is! my thoughts are that the dunedain have greater power than lesser men, and the lords of the dunedain even greater so