Clive Staples Lewis

[crickhollow]

Originally posted by RÃ*an
crickhollow - one of the parts that I didn't get in TWHF is when (oh shoot, can't remember their names offhand, and I loaned my book out!!) anyway, near the end when the older sister (was it Orual?) tried to do things, like get fleece from the rams, and couldn't; then Psyche came after and did it with (apparently) divine help and guidance (she took the wool off of the bushes). What do you think that meant? That we can't do things on our own, but "with God, all things are possible"? But it also seemed like Psyche was doing it FOR Orual, like Christ died for OUR sin. What do you think?

okay, here we go (three more cheers for the campus library, which carries four copies of TWHF)

After Orual convinces Psyche to light the lamp and look upon the face of her husband...

"Now Psyche goes out into exile. Now she must hunger and thirst and tread hard roads. Those against whom I cannot fight must do their will upon her. You, woman, shall know yourself and your work. You also shall be Psyche."

p. 173-4 this was Cupid speaking to Orual--Orual was later haunted by the sound of Psyche's weeping.

Later on, Orual writes:

And the continual labour of mind to which it put me began to overflow into my sleep. It was a labour of sifting and sorting, separating motive from motive and both from pretext; and this same sorting went on every night in my dreams, but in a changed fashion. I though I had before me a huge, hopeless pile of seeds, wheat, barley, poppy, rye, millet, what not, and I must sort them out and make spearate piles, each all of one kind. Why I must do it, I do not know; but infinite punishment would fall upon me if I rested a moment from my labour or if, when all was done, a single seed were in the wrong pile.

In the vision with the rams, the rams trample Orual, leaving Psyche free to gather the wool caught by the thorns.

Then, while she is waiting for her trial with the gods, she finds out htat she bore Psyche's anguish, while Psyche carried out the actual tasks, and in the end, Orual is also redeemed, and the gods declare that she is Ungit no longer, but has become like Psyche.

[Rían]

Thanks for the excerpts, crickhollow! wow, some school - to have 4 copies of TWHF!! Is it a Christian school?

Sadly, I still just don't get this part What does it mean, "You also shall be Psyche"?? Can you put into words what this section means to you to try and help me out? Is there some works vs. faith meaning? I like so much of this book, that it is frustrating to "not get" a part. Or am I just trying to read too much into this part?

looking back over the thread...

Sun-star - no, I haven't read any bios, I think there is one out there, though. What I really enjoyed is Tolkien's many references to Lewis in "The Letters of JRR Tolkien". Really interesting! How is PoP reading coming along? Oh, and there are 2 CSL "letters" books out that give a wonderful light on CSL, just like Tolkien's Letters - "Letters of CS Lewis" and "Letters to an American Lady". Oh, there's also something like "Letters of CS Lewis, mainly to children" which is GREAT! I must have loaned it out, though, can't find it offhand. Whoops - also Letters to Malcolm, chiefly on prayer. wow, lots of letters.

osszie - as far as poetry, I have a book called C.S. Lewis - narrative poems. I'm not a big poetry fan, though, but you might like it. Have you started to read anything else of his?

webwizard333 - CSL is sure a wonderful writer, isn't he? Seems like a really great person, too. Have you started any more of his works? I highly recommend Problem of Pain.

And I know TinuvielChild is deep in the Sil for a school project, so I won't ask her if she has started any other CSL works

[crickhollow]

I love his letters to children...he discusses Tolkien's ents with one of the kids. You know why they only have two of Tolkien's letters to Lewis, right? He was a neatnick, and threw a lot of that stuff away!
hmm, I hadn't thought of the faith v. works issue, Rian, I think he was referring to Orual's sentence of bearing Psyche's pain. Or perhaps he was referring Orual's eventual redemption. Yes, that's probably more likely, because here's a quote from the last page: I cast down my eyes. Two figures, reflections, their feet to Pshyche's feet and mine, stood head downward in the water...Yes, both Psyches, both beautiful (if that mattered now) beyond all imagining, yet not exactly the same. "You also are Psyche," came a great voice.

yes, it is a christian school, and on top of that, a couple of the english profs are big on lewis and tolkien (one I know did his doctorate studies at oxford)

[Rían]

Originally posted by crickhollow
My favorite is Perelandra (and, incidentally, that was Lewis' "other" favorite) i love the details that make the planet come alive. The fruit that Ransom eats, etc. Lewis also has an interesting spin on other aspects...the mindless cruelty of Weston (eg. killing the frogs, ripping the feathers off of the birds)

he's basically replaying the story of Adam and Eve, and the fall of man (for those who haven't read it) Ransom is sent to stop Eve from giving in to the tempter (basically, Satan in Weston's body)

The last two chapters beg to be read over and over because there's so much depth to the conversation between Ransom and the King.

Your thoughts?

Absolutely!! Remember the fruit where you only occasionally get the one with the special thing inside that makes it extra good, and Ransom realizes that in our world, people would fiddle with the plant so that ALL the fruit is that way? Instead of just receiving it as a special treat from God and leaving it the way He designed it. And remember the bubble trees?

I though the portrayal of Weston as evil was brillant - just mindless cruelty, if the lady was sleeping and he couldn't work on corrupting her. Gave me the shivers....

And the last two chapters - wow! Time to read it again

[sun-star]

Can anyone help me with the significance of the floating islands in Perelandra? Apart from the fact he has to literally find his feet in the new world, does it mean anything, or is it just a nice detail?

[crickhollow]

Frankly, I'd just chalk it up to Lewis's creativity.

(*mutters curses against the 90 second rule*)

[Starr Polish]

Curse my public library! Curse it!

This thread got me interested in C.S. Lewis's other work (I've read the Chronicles) so I hiked on up to the library to check out some of his stuff (and return my copy of ROTK...can't wait 'til Christmas, my own copy!) and all they had was "The Screwtape Letters"...on audio book! I despise audio books.

[crickhollow]

Poor Starr Polish. Now is the time to introduce your library to the wonderful world of C.S. Lewis. Take home a hundred or so request forms, and fill them out in your spare time Otherwise, if your church has a library, they probably have C.S. Lewis in it. He figures pretty prominently in most church libraries that I've been in.

I just checked out Allegory of Love, Studies in Medieval and Renaissance Literature, and The Discarded Image. All three are on Medieval Literature--Lewis's specialty. and get this: They're for a paper I'm writing for Medieval History!

[Rían]

Originally posted by sun-star
Can anyone help me with the significance of the floating islands in Perelandra? Apart from the fact he has to literally find his feet in the new world, does it mean anything, or is it just a nice detail?

Yes, I agree with crickhollow, I think it's just a great imagination. I think he really wanted to give the feeling of a whole different world in this book, and he sure did! I never thought of him having to "find his feet" before, though - good observation.

[Rían]

Oh, and "hi" Starr Polish! I hope you can get your hands on lots of CSL - he's really amazing! I would highly recommend "the problem of pain" for your next read. I started re-reading it 2 nights ago and am re-amazed at it. I am hoping to get my women's Bible study to go through it. We are just getting started again (we break over the summer) and are looking for a new book.

[webwizard333]

I feel a little embarassed asking this question, but I've been unable to find a definative answer anywhere else. Was C.S. Lewis Catholic or some other Christian denomination? If he is, I'm going to spearhead the movement to have him sainted. If St. Thomas Aquinas was that so can he.

[Rían]

Originally posted by webwizard333
If he is, I'm going to spearhead the movement to have him sainted.

Isn't he a great writer? And it seems that he acted out what he wrote, too. I believe he was COE (Church of England), but I'll try to find out for sure. Which of his works have you read?

[sun-star]

He was Church of England - an "Ulster Protestant", I believe. Unfortunately that means he couldn't be a saint

[Aeryn]

Polish, You'll love CSL's other stuff

[Rían]

he may not be eligible to be a saint in the eyes of the Catholic church, but since he's a Christian, he's a saint in the eyes of God! (which is more important!)

Hello, aeryn! what are your CSL favorites?

[Starr Polish]

Ah, I can praise my school library (tis a rare thing indeed!). I found The Screwtape Letters, Perelandra and Till We Have Faces. I'm reading Screwtape right now. It's a pretty short book, but it's taking me awhile to read it, because there is definitely a lot to chew on. I love it!

[crickhollow]

See if you can get your hands on Out of the Silent Planet before you read Perelandra (yes, perelandra is much better, but it won't make any sense with out OSP)

[Rían]

Great point, crickhollow - that slipped right past me - glad you caught it.

I agree with crickhollow, Starr - Really try to read Out of the Silent Planet before Perelandra, because that will help you with LOTS of background info and will greatly enhance Perelandra.

Screwtape is good, but I find it kind of - I don't know, I suppose almost exhausting somehow, I think just to be exposed to so much evil will. However, it certainly exposes lots of good things for us to be aware of, and is good to read. I just find that I can't read it very often. Does anyone else feel this way?

*throws in one more plug for The Problem of Pain* *it's a great book!!!* *Try it!*

[Starr Polish]

They don;t have "The Problem of Pain" at either library! I'll probably end up buying a lot of the books myself (well, with the use of book store gift cards I've been asking for).

I'm home sick today (sinus infection), so I'll probably finish "Till We Have Faces".

I agree, Screwtape was rather...heavy. Usually I could finish a book like that in about an hour, but it took me three days to read, because I would stop and think about what I was reading. (Another reason I prefer books to audio books). I did learn a lot, just from one reading, and I had to set the book down and clear my head when I found that I was guilty of many of the things Screwtape talked about.

[Rían]

Sorry about the sinus infection, I'm just getting over one myself. I was sick as a dog all weekend and finally got antibiotics Monday a.m. and am feeling half-human now *woof! uh, sorry!*

I can't wait to hear what you think about TWHF! Crickhollow is the only other person in the WORLD that I know that has read it, and now there will be another person! yay!