The Last Battle: did King Tirian have a thing for Jill?

***Valandil*** · 10-07-2008, 09:01 PM

Did King Tirian have a thing for Jill, in The Last Battle? I sort of thought so. Did anyone else?

***Earniel*** · 10-08-2008, 03:50 AM

I didn't get that idea, I rather thought he was just being chivalrous towards her. But then it's been a while since I last read that book.

Midge · 10-09-2008, 12:14 AM

I think he was impressed with her many talents, which are quite more numerous than they were in the previous book. And maybe he was a little taken with her, because in the Silver Chair, it said that Jill was able to steal the hearts of the GIANTS who were going to eat her, so maybe it is slightly plausible that Tirian found himself warming to her.

nathan3011 · 12-17-2008, 09:51 AM

It's been a while since i last read this but i understand why you would ask this question as from certain points you could definately think Landlord Insurance but it does also seem to be more about chivalry as was pointed out in an earlier post!

She does have many talents, which of course could mean that maybe the king was taken by her but for a definitive yes/no answer i would have to read up on it agian.

hectorberlioz · 12-22-2008, 01:12 PM

I was under the impression, from the books, that Jill was less attractive than other girls at her school and this was one reason she was beat up on.

I'll have to re-read all the books featuring Jill, even though they were the ones I read most recently.

inked · 12-25-2008, 01:06 AM

Chivalry, Sir, plain and simple. Admiration for her talents and skills, too. How about a genuinely FRIENDly interest, too, for good measure? But I have never read personal attraction in 35 years, myself.

hectorberlioz · 12-25-2008, 03:57 AM

You're not a very imaginative scriptwriter, Inked

.

GrayMouser · 12-25-2008, 11:05 AM

I don't know about Trinian, but I sure did

***Varnafindë*** · 12-25-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

You're not a very imaginative scriptwriter, Inked

.

Perhaps he's faithful to the spirit of the books instead.

Midge · 12-25-2008, 09:54 PM

Wasn't Tirian like.. early twenties? Broad in shoulder, but yet without a full beard? Would that not be kind of creepy considering that Jill at the most could have been 14? MAYBE 15? I got the idea that adults didn't generally come into Narnia because they were called there. Only children (obviously Uncle Andrew was an exception... but he used the Rings) went there in times of need according to Lewis. After the Last Battle, I don't believe it counted anymore because a) Narnia was no longer in any danger of being in need and b) they weren't technically either adults or children in the real world. I think childhood ends approximately age 12/13. As in, that's how old I suspect Peter and Susan were when they were told they couldn't return to Narnia. Peter might have been slightly older. But I have always seen Jill and Eustace as being about.. 10 or 11 in the Silver Chair and maybe a year-ish older in the Last Battle.

Just a thought.. but that's almost like pedophilism (is that a word?) and I'm pretty sure that was frowned upon in Lewis's day. I don't think Aslan would have held with such a thing, either.

GrayMouser · 12-26-2008, 01:42 AM

I think the characters got older as the series progressed- or at least seemed that way- I'd have put Jill and Eustace as being 12 in "The Silver Chair" and 14-15 in "The Last Battle".

Of course,ages were flexible within Narnia- otherwise, you'd hardly have a 12-year-old Edmund being described by the Telmarine lords as a fell warrior.

***Varnafindë*** · 12-26-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Of course,ages were flexible within Narnia- otherwise, you'd hardly have a 12-year-old Edmund being described by the Telmarine lords as a fell warrior.

The four siblings who had grown up and been adults in Narnia, found that they got some of their maturity back when they had been back for a few days. The twelve year old probably looked older than his years, at least had an air of maturity about him.

Jill, on the other hand, had not become an adult in Narnia, so she would seem only 14 or 15 or whatever her real age was. And the King might have been impressed with her abilities, perhaps just because she was so young and still was having such abilities.

***Tessar*** · 12-26-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midge

Wasn't Tirian like.. early twenties? Broad in shoulder, but yet without a full beard? Would that not be kind of creepy considering that Jill at the most could have been 14? MAYBE 15? I got the idea that adults didn't generally come into Narnia because they were called there. Only children (obviously Uncle Andrew was an exception... but he used the Rings) went there in times of need according to Lewis. After the Last Battle, I don't believe it counted anymore because a) Narnia was no longer in any danger of being in need and b) they weren't technically either adults or children in the real world. I think childhood ends approximately age 12/13. As in, that's how old I suspect Peter and Susan were when they were told they couldn't return to Narnia. Peter might have been slightly older. But I have always seen Jill and Eustace as being about.. 10 or 11 in the Silver Chair and maybe a year-ish older in the Last Battle.

Just a thought.. but that's almost like pedophilism (is that a word?) and I'm pretty sure that was frowned upon in Lewis's day. I don't think Aslan would have held with such a thing, either.

You could probably chalk a lot of that up to just being a different society. I mean the greek girls got married off even earlier than 16 in ye olde tyme.

Anyways, I don't know, but I thought Jill was a little older than that.

hectorberlioz · 12-27-2008, 12:39 AM

I don't ever recall any straight-out romancing in the Narnia books, except between Shasta and Aravis. And that was pretty rough going for Shasta, poor guy.

.

***Varnafindë*** · 12-27-2008, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I don't ever recall any straight-out romancing in the Narnia books, except between Shasta and Aravis. And that was pretty rough going for Shasta, poor guy.

.

Quote:

Aravis also had many quarrels (and, I'm afraid, even fights) with Cor, but they always made it up again: so that years later, when they were grown up, they were so used to quarrelling and making it up again that they got married so as to go on doing it more conveniently.

(The Horse and His Boy)

hectorberlioz · 12-27-2008, 01:53 PM

Hehe yes, I read that bit a doy or so ago when I was looking for some answers to Midge's question.

As the philosopher rabbi says in Candide. Something about wanting to get married multiple times so as to enjoy fighting more often

.

ayra · 01-15-2009, 06:16 PM

Jill was still in school. I always thought she was maybe 13, most likely younger. I also thought that Tiran was just being polite because she was a "lady".

GrayMouser · 11-01-2009, 06:14 AM

Checked it out on the Narnian Timeline- according to that, Jill was only nine during "The Silver Chair", but was 16 in "The Last Battle"- that was surprising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narnian_timeline

Midge · 11-01-2009, 11:23 PM

Oh, wow. That's a long time for a lull. I had thought it was like, only a year or so.

I think I would make a great Jill for the new movies

hectorberlioz · 03-08-2010, 11:58 AM

Actually, upon re-reading TLB, I'm wondering if Lewis wasn't building a romance between Jill and Eustace.

10-07-2008, 09:01 PM	#1
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	The Last Battle: did King Tirian have a thing for Jill? Did King Tirian have a thing for Jill, in The Last Battle? I sort of thought so. Did anyone else? __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ñ á ë ?* ó ú é ä ï ö Ö ñ É Þ ð ß ® ™ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

10-08-2008, 03:50 AM	#2
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	I didn't get that idea, I rather thought he was just being chivalrous towards her. But then it's been a while since I last read that book. __________________ We are not things.

10-09-2008, 12:14 AM	#3
Midge Faithful Gardener Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: I walk here and there, they say... Posts: 3,603	I think he was impressed with her many talents, which are quite more numerous than they were in the previous book. And maybe he was a little taken with her, because in the Silver Chair, it said that Jill was able to steal the hearts of the GIANTS who were going to eat her, so maybe it is slightly plausible that Tirian found himself warming to her. __________________ In God I trust, I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Psalm 56:11 "Starbuck, what do you hear?" "Nothin' but the rain, sir!" "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat." Make sure to check out the C.S. Lewis forum. Game threads, movie and book discussions and more!

12-17-2008, 09:51 AM	#4
nathan3011 Sapling Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1	It's been a while since i last read this but i understand why you would ask this question as from certain points you could definately think Landlord Insurance but it does also seem to be more about chivalry as was pointed out in an earlier post! She does have many talents, which of course could mean that maybe the king was taken by her but for a definitive yes/no answer i would have to read up on it agian. Last edited by nathan3011 : 11-29-2011 at 07:33 AM.

12-22-2008, 01:12 PM	#5
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	I was under the impression, from the books, that Jill was less attractive than other girls at her school and this was one reason she was beat up on. I'll have to re-read all the books featuring Jill, even though they were the ones I read most recently. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-25-2008, 01:06 AM	#6
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Chivalry, Sir, plain and simple. Admiration for her talents and skills, too. How about a genuinely FRIENDly interest, too, for good measure? But I have never read personal attraction in 35 years, myself. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

12-25-2008, 03:57 AM	#7
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	You're not a very imaginative scriptwriter, Inked . __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-25-2008, 11:05 AM	#8
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	I don't know about Trinian, but I sure did __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

12-25-2008, 09:54 PM	#10
Midge Faithful Gardener Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: I walk here and there, they say... Posts: 3,603	Wasn't Tirian like.. early twenties? Broad in shoulder, but yet without a full beard? Would that not be kind of creepy considering that Jill at the most could have been 14? MAYBE 15? I got the idea that adults didn't generally come into Narnia because they were called there. Only children (obviously Uncle Andrew was an exception... but he used the Rings) went there in times of need according to Lewis. After the Last Battle, I don't believe it counted anymore because a) Narnia was no longer in any danger of being in need and b) they weren't technically either adults or children in the real world. I think childhood ends approximately age 12/13. As in, that's how old I suspect Peter and Susan were when they were told they couldn't return to Narnia. Peter might have been slightly older. But I have always seen Jill and Eustace as being about.. 10 or 11 in the Silver Chair and maybe a year-ish older in the Last Battle. Just a thought.. but that's almost like pedophilism (is that a word?) and I'm pretty sure that was frowned upon in Lewis's day. I don't think Aslan would have held with such a thing, either. __________________ In God I trust, I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Psalm 56:11 "Starbuck, what do you hear?" "Nothin' but the rain, sir!" "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat." Make sure to check out the C.S. Lewis forum. Game threads, movie and book discussions and more!

12-26-2008, 01:42 AM	#11
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	I think the characters got older as the series progressed- or at least seemed that way- I'd have put Jill and Eustace as being 12 in "The Silver Chair" and 14-15 in "The Last Battle". Of course,ages were flexible within Narnia- otherwise, you'd hardly have a 12-year-old Edmund being described by the Telmarine lords as a fell warrior. __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill

12-27-2008, 12:39 AM	#14
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	I don't ever recall any straight-out romancing in the Narnia books, except between Shasta and Aravis. And that was pretty rough going for Shasta, poor guy. . __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

12-27-2008, 01:53 PM	#16
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	Hehe yes, I read that bit a doy or so ago when I was looking for some answers to Midge's question. As the philosopher rabbi says in Candide. Something about wanting to get married multiple times so as to enjoy fighting more often. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

01-15-2009, 06:16 PM	#17
ayra Elven Warrior Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kalia. YOU HUMANS CAN'T GO THERE! Also land of boredom Posts: 230	Jill was still in school. I always thought she was maybe 13, most likely younger. I also thought that Tiran was just being polite because she was a "lady". __________________ I am Queen Tallie Falcon. Do not mess with me. US KALIANS WILL RULE THOSE FROM THE REPUBLIC! Kalia rocks!

11-01-2009, 06:14 AM	#18
GrayMouser Elf Lord Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ilha Formosa Posts: 2,068	Checked it out on the Narnian Timeline- according to that, Jill was only nine during "The Silver Chair", but was 16 in "The Last Battle"- that was surprising. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narnian_timeline __________________ Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep. Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them? "I like pigs. Dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, but pigs treat us as equals."- Winston Churchill Last edited by GrayMouser : 11-01-2009 at 06:18 AM.

11-01-2009, 11:23 PM	#19
Midge Faithful Gardener Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: I walk here and there, they say... Posts: 3,603	Oh, wow. That's a long time for a lull. I had thought it was like, only a year or so. I think I would make a great Jill for the new movies __________________ In God I trust, I will not be afraid. What can man do to me? Psalm 56:11 "Starbuck, what do you hear?" "Nothin' but the rain, sir!" "Then grab your gun and bring in the cat." Make sure to check out the C.S. Lewis forum. Game threads, movie and book discussions and more!

03-08-2010, 11:58 AM	#20
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	Actually, upon re-reading TLB, I'm wondering if Lewis wasn't building a romance between Jill and Eustace. __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

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