The Chronicles Of Narnia Movies: Prince Caspian

[Midge]

I remember I was crushed when I saw LWW. When Tumnus meets Lucy for the first time, he never said, "Goodness gracious me!" I was so waiting for it, and waiting for it... and I was so terribly let down. I am afraid it will be that way throughout the entirety of the movie-series. But I will continue to see them. It's like self-inflicted torture. I just can't help it.

[frodomerryandaragornrock]

Originally Posted by Curufin

I disagree - strongly. The main themes of Lord of the Rings were changed a lot.

That's ok, not everyone has to agree with me, i was just saying that they weren't changed as much as in caspian.

[frodomerryandaragornrock]

Originally Posted by The last sane person

They butchered both series, in my opinion.

I'm glad I never saw ROTK or TTT or even LOTR in theater, and have only since caught bits and pieces of them when they pop up on TV.

But I DID go to LWW in theaters, I semi enjoyed it; it wasn't too terrible... Then Caspain and bleugh... That killed it for me. I don't care if they do them ALL, I ain't gonna watch.

You dont have to agree with me either. evryone's entitled to their own opinions!!

[Mari]

Me likesed it. I haven't read Prince Caspian in a long time and it isn't my favourite book, so I don't know what they changed exactly. I was just glad to see that arrogant Peter got taught a lesson, which unfortunately involved the deaths of many good Narnians.
And that Edmund had wised up. *shrugs* To me the book and the film is entirely separate and I appreciate both. I really wish to see the ending of the last book and I'm looking forward to the next one in the series. I wonder where they are going to put the Magician's Nephew seen as that I thought that was the first one.

[Varnafindë]

Me likesed it too, even with the changes.

That whole night raid where arrogant Peter was taught a lesson, was an addition, not from the book - but then, in the book Peter wasn't as arrogant.

Edmund was closer to his book version than Peter was. I liked him very much! He has such a lovely dry humour in places.

The Magician's Nephew was the first book chronologically - but LWW was published first, and I think it was a very good idea to start the movies with it as well. Then The Magician's Nephew can be done whenever they like - there will be new children in it, so actors' ages are not a problem.

It was the 6th book to be published, maybe 6th movie could be fine as well.

[Mari]

Hehe, I just couldn't get into the character of Susan though. She annoys me. And Lucy didn't look helpless and cute enough
I'm just whining now

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Mari

And Lucy didn't look helpless and cute enough
I'm just whining now

She shouldn't be all that helpless any more, should she? I've always assumed she had matured some when they went back to Narnia.

[frodomerryandaragornrock]

Originally Posted by Mari

Hehe, I just couldn't get into the character of Susan though. She annoys me. And Lucy didn't look helpless and cute enough
I'm just whining now

True, true.

[Acalewia]

Originally Posted by Midge

The whole Susan and Caspian thing bothered me. Hollywood can't seem to fathom a good story without romance in it. Those were children's books, and C.S. Lewis was pretty much a genius. If he didn't see any reason for romance, I don't know WHY that idiot director thought the movie needed it.

IIRC, Caspian didn't get a love intreast until Dawn Treader

The thing that bugged me most was the random attack on the Telmarines' castle. I realize the movie was simply BASED on the book and not C.S. Lewis's book put into a movie. However, C.S. Lewis wrote a wonderful story and unlike Tolkien, his books were not long-winded and impractical to make exactly into a movie as they were written.

It's Hollywood. What fantasy story is not complete with a couple of battles that don't really belong. On that note, IIRC, Glenstorm didn't lose both his sons in battle

It does bother me that Hollywood is okay with just disregarding the deity of Aslan. The river-god part made me SO INCREDIBLY MAD. In the book, he says, "Hail, Aslan! Loose my chains!" and then Aslan has the tree people tear down the bridge. They completely ignored the part where the river-god asks Aslan to get rid of the bridge and just go with utter destruction. How cool would it have been if the river-god had said, "Hail Aslan!... etc." and Aslan turned to Lucy, who was just standing there with a knife, and said, "Lucy. Deliver him of his chains." and she stabbed the bridge with the knife and it shattered, and then the river-god takes care of all the charging Telmarines? How sweet would that have been???

I would have loved that. And it prolly would have been a lot cooler

I can't remember, did they say "To know what WOULD have happened? No, child, no one is ever told that."? I forget. All of the books have a specific lesson-thing and that is one of the Prince Caspian ones.

Horse and his Boy. Shasta asked Aslan about the knight that was found with him in the boat.

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Me likesed it too, even with the changes.

That whole night raid where arrogant Peter was taught a lesson, was an addition, not from the book - but then, in the book Peter wasn't as arrogant.

Edmund was closer to his book version than Peter was. I liked him very much! He has such a lovely dry humour in places.

The Magician's Nephew was the first book chronologically - but LWW was published first, and I think it was a very good idea to start the movies with it as well. Then The Magician's Nephew can be done whenever they like - there will be new children in it, so actors' ages are not a problem.

It was the 6th book to be published, maybe 6th movie could be fine as well.

It ws ok with the changes, and yes at least this time Edmund was a lot closer to the book.

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

She shouldn't be all that helpless any more, should she? I've always assumed she had matured some when they went back to Narnia.

Lucy is the one with all the faith while the others seem to lose thair faith in Narnia and Aslan when they weren't in Narnia

[Midge]

Originally Posted by Acalewia

Horse and his Boy. Shasta asked Aslan about the knight that was found with him in the boat.

No, it's in Prince Caspian too. Lucy asks him if everything would have been alright if she'd left the others in the fir wood to follow Aslan and he says that no one is told what happens.

[Butterbeer]

Yes Midge is indeed correct... there is a scene between Lucy and Aslan in Prince caspian

as to hollywood, i'm not totally sure that a world-weary response oh "oh that's Hollywood" is helpful

However i tend to agree that Lewis's work is far easier to translate to the silver screen close enough to the books than most others..

although, in point of fact (and ironically) the changes actually held some interest for me whilst at the cinema

As to the order, i beleive this has been discussed - but essentially the Magicians nephew was written when we, the reader, had presumably at least in the majority of cases... had been already introduced to Narnia et al - the mere fact it details the start of that particular world and acts as a back-story for the wardrobe (made from wood from the seed of the apple of youth brought between the worlds)

does in no way extend to American Publishers or Libraries or any others the right to not have the series read in the order and as the Author intended.

.............


Lucy is of course the most innocent and faithful, but with the exception of Susan not listening to hers and letting fear get the better of hers..i am not sure this is really applicable to edmund or Peter that:

"the others seem to lose thair faith in Narnia and Aslan when they weren't in Narnia "

Say rather that Lucy is tested..not for faith but for the conviction to act on it...

best BB

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Midge

No, it's in Prince Caspian too. Lucy asks him if everything would have been alright if she'd left the others in the fir wood to follow Aslan and he says that no one is told what happens.

And the scene is there in the movie, only with Aslan saying we don't know what happens.

[Midge]

Which sucks. I think we've been over this, but that just takes away whatever deity he has and just makes him some sort of superhero who doesn't know for sure that everything will be okay, but his powers give the good guys the upper hand.

The whole point of Aslan is that he is the God-figure in Narnia. There are traces of God (all-knowing, all-powerful, loving), traces of Jesus (LWW.. He died...) and even traces of the Holy Spirit (the feelings the children get when they hear his name the first time, the peace Lucy feels after hearing the albatross in the Dark Island in VDT). I love the books, and I'd LOVE movies to watch that are not simply based on the books, but ARE the books... just visually.

The thing about Hollywood is that they care most about making money.
However, I'm sure that Prince Caspian would have made a lot of money if they'd called it something else. It just probably made more because it was hiding behind a name that C.S. Lewis made wonderful. Andrew Adamson made it crap.... well, the movie. Not the name.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Midge

Which sucks. I think we've been over this, but that just takes away whatever deity he has and just makes him some sort of superhero who doesn't know for sure that everything will be okay, but his powers give the good guys the upper hand.

I agree completely.

The whole point of Aslan is that he is the God-figure in Narnia. There are traces of God (all-knowing, all-powerful, loving), traces of Jesus (LWW.. He died...) and even traces of the Holy Spirit (the feelings the children get when they hear his name the first time, the peace Lucy feels after hearing the albatross in the Dark Island in VDT).

And there's not enough of that in this movie. There's no real divine intervention. Aslan sits still far away in the forest, doing nothing until he's sought out and asked for help, which is not the impression I get in the book.

However, I'm sure that Prince Caspian would have made a lot of money if they'd called it something else. It just probably made more because it was hiding behind a name that C.S. Lewis made wonderful.

And still it seems to make less than The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, which wasn't distorted quite as much.

The second objection I have against the movie - although I like it generally in spite of some serious distortions - is that it's making Peter so arrogant. It makes for more tension in the movie, of course, but unnecessarily so. In the book he isn't arrogant at all - perhaps that's not realistic, but then again these are fairytales, not psychological novels. With the medieval air there is to the Narnian world, Peter could have been left some more chivalry.

"We haven't come to take your place, you know, but to put you into it."

Perhaps the single line I missed most from the book. Not just because it's a great line, but because it shows the purpose of their quest. And Peter misses that purpose in the movie.

Btw, what did you think of the Jadis scene? I think that was one of the better additions to the plot.

[Midge]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

That whole night raid where arrogant Peter was taught a lesson, was an addition, not from the book - but then, in the book Peter wasn't as arrogant.

Edmund was closer to his book version than Peter was. I liked him very much! He has such a lovely dry humour in places.

"I know: You had it sorted!" I liked that part. It did make me laugh. I went back and saw it again, and I just couldn't make myself like it more. It was sad.

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

I agree completely.

And there's not enough of that in this movie. There's no real divine intervention. Aslan sits still far away in the forest, doing nothing until he's sought out and asked for help, which is not the impression I get in the book.

And still it seems to make less than The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, which wasn't distorted quite as much.

The second objection I have against the movie - although I like it generally in spite of some serious distortions - is that it's making Peter so arrogant. It makes for more tension in the movie, of course, but unnecessarily so. In the book he isn't arrogant at all - perhaps that's not realistic, but then again these are fairytales, not psychological novels. With the medieval air there is to the Narnian world, Peter could have been left some more chivalry.

"We haven't come to take your place, you know, but to put you into it."

Perhaps the single line I missed most from the book. Not just because it's a great line, but because it shows the purpose of their quest. And Peter misses that purpose in the movie.

Not only that, but by making a good character seem bad, it completely takes away from the other themes that Lewis wrote into the story. Lewis was a literary genius, IMO, and he made the story the way he did for a reason. When you change a story as drastically as the directors did here, it takes away from the whole point the original readers loved about the book.

For instance, in the movie, when Prince Caspian says he doesn't feel ready, is anyone surprised at all? He's had this stupid past King telling him how sucky of a leader he is! In the book, Peter had been only supportive of Caspian (enter your quote from the book mentioned above), so when Caspian says how unprepared he feels, it's really him struggling with self-doubt, not bad self-esteem encouraged by arrogant Peter who really should have known better.

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Btw, what did you think of the Jadis scene? I think that was one of the better additions to the plot.

I think that is actually one part where the movie stayed true to the book. It's not a variation at all, but a deeper explanation of what happens.. visually, not using narrative words; the movie doesn't really provide an opportunity for that.

They were just telling the movie-watcher what was going to happen and how it would be dangerous... instead of just having them fight the bad creatures and say, "They were going to call the White Witch back!" the director showed you how dire the situation could be if it actually happened. After thinking about it, that is the extra part of the movie to which I object the least. Mostly it's the arrogance of Peter, the romance of Caspian and Susan, the stripping of Aslan's deity... Actually, I object to a LOT in this movie. Hm.. I would like to call that director guy and say, Hey! You should hire some die-hard Narnia fans to look over your script and tell you what you could change to make it more like the movies. You need some people who want the movies to be exactly like the books. And you need some people who understand why it can't. But you need both! Not just one.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Midge

"I know: You had it sorted!" I liked that part. It did make me laugh.

Yes, that was one of the best Edmund scenes in the whole movie.
And as an addition, it was very appropriate as well - Edmund knows that you don't stop and let Jadis argue with you, she's far to similar to Saruman for that - you just go straight for her. Just like he went straight for her wand in their previous encounter. He's the one who knows best not to trust her.

I think that is actually one part where the movie stayed true to the book. It's not a variation at all, but a deeper explanation of what happens.. visually, not using narrative words; the movie doesn't really provide an opportunity for that.

They were just telling the movie-watcher what was going to happen and how it would be dangerous... instead of just having them fight the bad creatures and say, "They were going to call the White Witch back!" the director showed you how dire the situation could be if it actually happened. After thinking about it, that is the extra part of the movie to which I object the least.

I think you're right. It's true to the dynamics of that scene, even if it carries the details a bit further than the book. And those details make it richer.

Over at NarniaWeb one of the members had the chance to visit the set and interview some of the cast and crew during the filming. He told us that he saw something that made him very disappointed, but he was loyal to the production and didn't tell us what, until it was public - and it turned out that it was seeing Tilda Swinton on the set, not knowing in what way the White Witch would be used in this movie, and fearing that it would be bad.

When he had seen the movie, however, he posted in his review,

WHITE WITCH: As far as adaptation, I didn’t have any huge problems with this scene, and I actually kinda liked it. But as a stand-alone movie, this scene seems to come out of nowhere.

I like how she is defeated again, and how they never quite accomplish their scheme of calling her back.

Mostly it's the arrogance of Peter, the romance of Caspian and Susan, the stripping of Aslan's deity... Actually, I object to a LOT in this movie. Hm.. I would like to call that director guy and say, Hey! You should hire some die-hard Narnia fans to look over your script and tell you what you could change to make it more like the movies. You need some people who want the movies to be exactly like the books. And you need some people who understand why it can't. But you need both! Not just one.

At least there will be a new director for the next movie. Let's hope they're planning to take a different approach to that one. It's such a different story as well.

[nasuada]

I loved the movie Prince Caspian,i thought they did really good on the Telmarines.it did take a turn from the book at the part where Lucy wakes up from the dream and they added the night raid and other things but i thought it was still an awesome movie! i like it alot.

[ecthelion]

I didn't read the book.

After I saw the movie, I thought the plot just didn't make sense, because so many of the decisions that the characters made were incomprehensible.

Then I went and read the book plot summary (can't find the book at the moment) and understood why so much of the movie didn't make sense.

Of course CS wouldn't leave all those plot holes .

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by ecthelion

I didn't read the book.

After I saw the movie, I thought the plot just didn't make sense, because so many of the decisions that the characters made were incomprehensible.

Then I went and read the book plot summary (can't find the book at the moment) and understood why so much of the movie didn't make sense.

Of course CS wouldn't leave all those plot holes .

Well you still have to read the book!

You know, one thing I never understood about either the BBC production or the new one is: why did they leave out the segment with Aslan riding through Narnia, reawakening all the hiding creatures? I think it's a stupendous scene.

[GrayMouser]

You mean like this part?

One was a youth, dressed only in a fawn-skin, with vine-leaves wreathed in his curly hair. His face would have been almost too pretty for a boy's, if it had not looked so extremely wild. You felt, as Edmund said when he saw him a few days later, "There's a chap who might do anything - absolutely anything ...

There were a lot of girls with him, as wild as he ... There was even, unexpectedly, [a man] on a donkey ... who was old and enormously fat [who] began calling out at once, "Refreshments! Time for refreshments," and falling off his donkey and being bundled on it again by the others ...

or this

"You'll stay with us, sweetheart?" said Aslan.
"Oh, may I? Thank you, thank you," said Gwendolen. Instantly she joined hands with two of the maenads who whirled her round in a merry dance and helped her take off some of the unnecessary and uncomfortable clothes that she as wearing.

or this:

[They] began a dance, far wilder than the dance of the trees, not merely a dance for fun and beauty (thought it was that too) but a magic dance of plenty, and where their hands touched, and where their feet fell, the feast came into existence ...
.....
In great wooden cups and bowls and mazers, wreathed with ivy, came the wines: dark, thick ones like syrup of mulberry juice, and clear red ones like red jellies liquefied, and yellow wines and green wines ...

So half-naked pretty boys, falling-down-drunken old sots, flimsily-clad wild women (check the original Pauline Baynes illustrations) taking off a school-girls clothes while pulling her into their dance, all topped by a (literally) Bacchanalian revel with the Pevensie children (aged what, 12, 13, 14 ?) sitting around guzzling wine.

Works for me, but somehow I doubt either Disney or the good folk over at Walden media would have appreciated it.