accursed Charn and other matters

[frodosampippinmerry]

The deplorable word and the tree of youth in Narnia got me thinking. Aslan said everything works according to its nature, but if used the wrong way, the consequences could be bad. I've often wondered if C.S. Lewis ever comented on his own work like Tolkien, or if there is a forum for people who shared their world view to discuss their works in that context, because it seems that Aslan wanted the rings hidden so no one could use it them after Digory, yet he didn't say destroy them, and in the last book they are used again trying to respond to Tirian's distress call. Was Aslan, who in C.S. Lewis's story LWW is a Type of Christ forbidding the use or the improper use of the rings? In MN Aslan said the fruit of youth could either protect Narnia as it was created to be if use of the apples was authorized, or turn it into an evil empire like Charn. In that book Jadis mentions Charn and several other places she evidently destroyed-possibly other worlds or other kingdoms of her world, and I wonder if the deplorable word was something like stealing an apple thinking to protect Narnia only to have the protection turn ugly?

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by frodosampippinmerry

The deplorable word and the tree of youth in Narnia got me thinking. Aslan said everything works according to its nature, but if used the wrong way, the consequences could be bad. I've often wondered if C.S. Lewis ever comented on his own work like Tolkien,

He did write letters where there were comments on his own work - but he didn't continually revise his versions of the story the way Tolkien did. I guess partly because they worked in different ways, but also because the story was already published - even Tolkien didn't go to such lengths about revising LotR, only Silmarillion which didn't get published in his lifetime.

or if there is a forum for people who shared their world view to discuss their works in that context,

Have you been to http://www.narniaweb.com/? That's a discussion forum like Entmoot (only bigger and far more busy) for Narnia (especially the movies) and all things Lewis.

because it seems that Aslan wanted the rings hidden so no one could use it them after Digory, yet he didn't say destroy them, and in the last book they are used again trying to respond to Tirian's distress call. Was Aslan, who in C.S. Lewis's story LWW is a Type of Christ forbidding the use or the improper use of the rings?

"bury them so that no one can use them again" are Aslan's words. He is forbidding their use.
And in the last book, when they try to use them, the rings aren't used after all, because the train accident sends the children to Narnia instead.

In general, attempts to get to Narnia always seem to fail. When Eustace suggests to Jill that they should stand in a certain way and recite certain words in order to be drawn to Narnia, their attempted ceremony is broken off by the school bullies finding them and chasing them.
And THEN, while they are being chased and really thinking about other things, THAT is the time when they end up in Narnia.

In MN Aslan said the fruit of youth could either protect Narnia as it was created to be if use of the apples was authorized, or turn it into an evil empire like Charn. In that book Jadis mentions Charn and several other places she evidently destroyed-possibly other worlds or other kingdoms of her world, and I wonder if the deplorable word was something like stealing an apple thinking to protect Narnia only to have the protection turn ugly?

I think the deplorable word was more intrinsically evil than that. Jadis says that she paid a terrible price to learn it - and she doesn't say that it had any other use than to destroy all living things except the one who spoke it. You wouldn't be protecting anyone but yourself by speaking it - and even that protection would be ugly enough from the outset.

[Midge]

Also in the Last Battle, even though the Pevensies are trying to dig up the Rings to use to get to Narnia, Peter and Edmund go to dig them up, but they aren't planning on using them because they know that Aslan has already decreed that they will never go back to Narnia. I think they saw the dream that Tirian had as a calling, and while they trusted Aslan, they didn't want to just sit around if they could be doing something.

EDIT: Actually, if you think about it, that's all they were doing: something to do. It had been YEARS since Digory and Polly were in the wood, and even if the puddle back to Earth was still marked, there was no way of knowing where the puddle to Narnia was. If they were to use the Rings, the entire premise behind the Rings would have had to change, or else they would have been blundering from pool to pool looking for the Narnia pool. [/EDIT]

You know, that whole planting the apple thing intrigues me. When Aslan says that if someone unbidden had taken an apple and planted it to protect Narnia, but that Narnia would have turned into another world like Charn, it almost makes you despair, thinking, "Well, Digory took it to plant!" Then you realize that he had permission from Aslan.

It's like that passage in Revelation where John is really upset because nobody was found to open the little scroll until in walks Jesus and He is found worthy. You start to freak out because you don't want Narnia to be like Charn, but then you realize that it won't because Digory WAS bidden to take a fruit by the OWNER of the fruit.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Midge

Also in the Last Battle, even though the Pevensies are trying to dig up the Rings to use to get to Narnia, Peter and Edmund go to dig them up, but they aren't planning on using them because they know that Aslan has already decreed that they will never go back to Narnia. I think they saw the dream that Tirian had as a calling, and while they trusted Aslan, they didn't want to just sit around if they could be doing something.

They aren't planning on using them themselves - but they are planning to put them to use: They are going to give them to Eustace and Jill, who haven't had any such decree against them yet.

EDIT: Actually, if you think about it, that's all they were doing: something to do. It had been YEARS since Digory and Polly were in the wood, and even if the puddle back to Earth was still marked, there was no way of knowing where the puddle to Narnia was. If they were to use the Rings, the entire premise behind the Rings would have had to change, or else they would have been blundering from pool to pool looking for the Narnia pool. [/EDIT]

Yes, this would be a problem. Eustace and Jill would have had problems in finding the Narnia pool.

Digory and Polly might have been able to give them some advice - the Narnia pool must be very close to the Earth pool, as it seems they just picked the nearest one.

But Eustace and Jill might still have had to test out two or three pools, and there's no saying how long they might need to be in a given world before they would be able to say whether this was Narnia or not.

The puddle back to Earth wouldn't have been the problem - they would be coming up through it, and would be able to mark it themselves.

[Midge]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

They aren't planning on using them themselves - but they are planning to put them to use: They are going to give them to Eustace and Jill, who haven't had any such decree against them yet.

Yes, of course. That's what I meant.

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Yes, this would be a problem. Eustace and Jill would have had problems in finding the Narnia pool.

Digory and Polly might have been able to give them some advice - the Narnia pool must be very close to the Earth pool, as it seems they just picked the nearest one.

But Eustace and Jill might still have had to test out two or three pools, and there's no saying how long they might need to be in a given world before they would be able to say whether this was Narnia or not.

The puddle back to Earth wouldn't have been the problem - they would be coming up through it, and would be able to mark it themselves.

Little is known about the WBTW. I wouldn't be surprised to know that the pools move around, though there isn't a whole lot of evidence to support that.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Midge

Little is known about the WBTW. I wouldn't be surprised to know that the pools move around, though there isn't a whole lot of evidence to support that.

That would be cheating, wouldn't it?

[Midge]

Well, you never know when it comes to magic. It's not like we have a bunch of experience with it, and its properties are slightly different for every world that involves it. The WBTW was definitely magic.

[frodosampippinmerry]

Just out of curiosity, magic usually involves words, as if invisible beings i.e. angels or deceptive demonic spirits do your bidding, or the "world" is voice actuated like a computer simulated reality. Any thoughts on whether a voice actuated reality could have a scientific explanation as well as a spiritual one?

[Midge]

Well, yes, magic spells use words. But there are "magic powers" like being invisible, flying, shooting something from your hand that I would consider magic that doesn't involve words.

I'm a terrible person to ask on the other question. I would say they're the same. Surely, God has a huge part to play in one's spiritual life (or Aslan or whatever), but I would also say that God has the same part to play in science. After all, He created the world. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't real. He came up with all the postulates and theorems that work together in arithmetic, He made up the "rules" of science (the real ones, whether or not we've figured them out yet).

Much like it can be impossible to prove which kid broke the vase, it's impossible to "prove" the existence of God (that's the whole point of faith, after all). That doesn't mean He doesn't exist and He didn't orchestrate the organization of the entire universe, let alone the world. So, for me, science can be very spiritual, I guess. The two are basically the same.