Hobbits

Hi

I have been wondering lately, where the Hobbits came from.
It is said in LOTR that the Hobbits are in likes to that of the Big People, but less tall. They are not like the elves, and have little in common with Dwarves (save in hight).

Are They now derived from the Edain, ( if that were the case then most probably from the Eotheod, that lived near Greenwood The Great. Because it is said that the first line of Harefoots issued from there to wander into Eriador, where they got permission to stay. So the geographic proximity had probably played a part.)
Or are they a completely new People that were created with the Men (or after)? Probably not. It is not said that they were the product of the creativity of the Valar (Silm.).
One should like to think that this had to be so. Because all living creatures that talk or practice any handywork (Men, Elves, Dwarves, and even the foul Orcs that were created by Morgoth) were sung by the Valar, who foretold their being.

Have the hobbit any relation with the Drûedain? I do not know. Or else, have the Drûedain any relation whith the Men?

Q1 Where do the Hobbit come from?
Q2 Relation between Drûedain and Hobbits?

To the best of my knowledge there is no way to find out there early history. They do not enter into the mythology of Middle Earth until the war of the ring, and even then the people considered them the stuff of myth, and were surprised they even existed.

We don't know where they came from but we can speculate like crazy, and I've done that much (somewhere, someplace). When I have more time and am less tired I'll come back and try to summarize.

"Have the hobbit any relation with the Drûedain? I do not know. Or else, have the Drûedain any relation whith the Men?"

This is from the Encyclopedia of Arda:

"Drúedain: An ancient branch of the race of Men, active in the wars against Morgoth in the First Age, and granted a home with the Edain in Númenor during the Second Age."

"Hobbits: A mortal race almost certainly related to Men, though their origins are unknown. Their most distinguishing feature was their short stature; even the tallest Hobbits rarely exceeded four feet in height.

Originally a widespread people, hobbits were found in much of the north of Middle-earth and down the Vales of Anduin. As the Third Age passed, the Hobbits moved north and west, eventually founding the land of the Shire in III 1601."

I have always guessed that hobbits evolved from ancient men sometime in the beginning of the second age. I don't think they would've been related to the Drúedain.

I came across a reference in Letters last night that said Hobbits were absolutely human. Beyond that, no one, not even Hobbits themselves, knows their origins.
From a note to Letter 131:
"The Hobbits are, of course, really meant to be a branch of the specifically _human_ race (not Elves or Dwarves)--hence the two kinds can dwell together (as at Bree), and are called just the Big Fols and Little Folk."

And from the body of the same Letter:
"Their origin is unknown (even to themselves) for they escaped the notice of the great, or the civilized people with records, and kept none themselves, save vague oral traditions, until they had migrated from the borders of Mirkwood, fleeing from the Shadow, and wandered westward, coming into contact with the last remants of the Kingdom of Arnor."

Hobbits come from heaven.

:rollin: ROTFLMAO!!! :rollin:

I've reread the essay on the Druedain in Unfinished Tales. It is stated specifically that Hobbits and Druedain (Ghan-buri-Ghan's people) are not related. Note 4 to the essay says outright there was no kinship between the two peoples. See also the section "Further notes on the Druedain", first paragraph, which notes how JRRT took great pains to emphasize the differences between the two.

Well, I'm back....

Yes, hobbits are a branch of the human race, according to Tolkien and, no, they are not Druedain (or closel related to them). The ancestors of the hobbits had to awaken in Hildorien along with the other ancestors of men, but we don't know if they were of "hobbit height" or normal height. Nor do we know when they left the east, but they were certainly not among the Edainic peoples who settled in Rhovanion, Eriador, and Beleriand. Nor were they among the Easterlings who settled in Eriador and Beleriand.

My feeling is that the hobbit forefathers must have migrated north from Hildorien, rather than west. The probably found a land close to the mountains but by a river system, possibly in a forest. That would enable them to differentiate into the river-dwelling Stoors, forest-dwelling Fallohides, and hill-dwelling Harfoots. It may be that the Fallowhides and Stoors developed their affinities for Elves and Dwarves at this time, but I have my doubts.

We know from the essay "Dwarves and Men" in THE PEOPLES OF MIDDLE-EARTH that there were no hobbits living in Rhovanion as far east as the Carnen (the river flowing south from the Iron Hills) throughout the first half of the Second Age. There were Edainic men living throughout the lands from the Carnen to the Misty Mountains, and these tribes were allied with the Longbeard Dwarves. Sauron destroyed this alliance in the War of the Elves and Sauron, and he nearly wiped out the Edainic peoples. Those which survived fled into the northern mountains or deep into Greenwood the Great. These were the ancestors of the Northmen and the Woodmen of the Third Age.

By the end of the Second Age, the beginning of the Third Age the Edainic peoples were beginning to spread again. The Woodmen of central Greenwood were able to muster a strong enough force to disperse the Orcs who destroyed Isildur's company. About this time, the northern Edainic men, called the "Free Men of the North" in UNFINISHED TALES, were spreading south along the edges of the forest on both sides. There is no mention of hobbits at this time, so it's almost certain the hobbits did not arrive in Rhovanion during the Second Age.

That means they probably arrived sometime early in the Third Age, perhaps after the Easterlings began expanding, but possibly before Gondor came under attack. Although there is little mention of them, Easterlings did trouble the Vales of Anduin in the first part of the Third Age. My feeling is that the hobbits came west through the middle of the Greenwood, probably along the ancient Dwarf road which marked the southern boundary of Thranduil's kingdom (this was when his people lived in the Emyn Duir, later known as the Mountains of Mirkwood).

The Fallohides probably settled near the western edge of the forest, and they would have been close to the Elves. The Stoors must have crossed the river and travelled south the Gladden River fairly early on. The Harfoots, on the other hand, seem to have stayed near the ancient road but settled in the foothills of the mountains. The Harfoots and Fallohides probably lived in a mixture of their own communities and joint communities with Northmen (like the arrangement with the Bree-men later on). Tolkien wrote that this arrangement was mutually beneficial for both hobbits and men.

About the time that Sauron began taking shape again the Easterlings in the southern vales of Anduin began expanding. It was this expansion which triggered the hobbit migrations. I suspect the Fallohides must have crossed Anduin and settled among the Harfoots and Northmen. But this migration in turn must have triggered the Harfoot migration of TA 1050, whereby the Harfoots crossed the High Pass above Rivendell and entered Eriador. 100 years later the Easterlings must have become more numerous and active, for that is when the Fallohides followed the Harfoots and the Stoors crossed the Redhorn Pass.