Banned Books - Page 2

Laurelyn · 02-09-2002, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Starr Polish
It's amazing what kind of **** is on it...bleh.

You can say that again.
I could start a whole new thread on that . . . "A non-watcher's guide to bad TV shows." Hoom, maybe I will, or maybe somebody else'll beat me to the punchline and do it before me. I don't know.

Starr Polish · 02-09-2002, 11:45 PM

Huh? Why'd it star me out? I don't swear! Well, it wasn't exactly a nice word, I guess.

Twilight · 02-10-2002, 12:43 AM

You are right about tv. There are lots of shows that are pointless, just plain bad, or inapropriate. Books at least have some good content to them. If anything TV and movies should be even more censored than books. People that read books are the more intelegent type (in general), and they are less likely to be influenced by bad things within the books. People who only watch tv or movies and make that into their life, they just soak it all in and get such a warped view of what life is like.

Starr Polish · 02-10-2002, 01:24 AM

For the most part, yes, but look at all the badly written books and how popular they are.
V.C. Andrews novels (if you've read one, you've read them all)
Those gross romance novels
Tamora Pierce

And a lot of those rubbish magazines...bleh
The Sweet Valley High style books...ugh...a friend of mine reads those, but she's a real boy crazy ditz...hehe.

CardenIAntauraNauco · 02-10-2002, 03:04 AM

Carden is the proud owner of the 1000th post on General Literature now.

FrodoFriend · 02-10-2002, 03:50 AM

Congrats Carden!

TV? Huh? What's that? While other kids watch TV, I spend hours reading my stupid history book. *groan* Now that thing should be banned! Cruel and unusual punishment is illegal!

I also don't wear make-up, and well, I brush my hair but I don't do the whole blow-dry-braids-bleach thingie. I've had one boyfriend, and lemme tell ya, I'm in no hurry to do that dealie again!

Nah, books are the best form of entertainment and the best way to learn (besides actually experiencing things, which isn't always possible). They should not be banned!!!

Starr Polish · 02-10-2002, 02:34 PM

Bah, I brush my hair

AND I enjoy history ::laughs:: Actually, I am currently reading a book called "You don't know anything about history"...it's got all this stuff they don't teach you in school. The other day I almost got a book called "Entertaining Satan" (how's that for a book title for a Christian to buy?

) about the Salem witch trials, but I didn't.

galadriel88 · 02-10-2002, 03:14 PM

I have never had a real boyfriend, ever. I do my hair, yeah, but the only makeup I wear is a little bit of powder b/c my face is kinda oily and lip gloss. Occasionally I wear eyeshadow but only for spesh occasions. And you know what? I don't care! I don't see the point of taking that much time in the morning to do the whole major makeup deal, then go to school, flirt and act totally airheaded, only to have all the makeup wear off by 3:00 and your jerky boyfriends dump you after 3 days. I'm different, I admit it! I like learning new things (one of my fave TV channels is the History Channel), I play trombone in band, listen to all kinds of music from broadway to classic rock, read fantasy novels as well as classics like Emma and Jane Eyre, and try to do my best in all my schoolwork (that's why I make A's). I get made fun of a lot by the popular people cuz I 'm considered a nerd or whatever, but I just consider myself someone who goes against what's mainstream for people my age.

Starr Polish · 02-10-2002, 03:18 PM

I love the History Channel

Wheeeeee! I also watch Discovery and TLC...there is actually decent stuff on those channels.

galadriel88 · 02-10-2002, 03:30 PM

TLC, yeah! I love Trading Spaces, A Wedding Story, A Makeover Story, and Children's Hospital of Orange County. I loved that special the Discovery Channel ran about Alcatraz on Wed. night!

mirrille · 02-10-2002, 05:32 PM

It's funny. I like watching documentaries on History channel and Discovery and stuff like that, but I didn't like learning it in class. I guess I don't like having to memorize it for a test.

I think that in most cases, a warning label is preferable to a ban. The idea is just so that people who object to certain kinds of material, be they of a sexual or violent nature, do not have to be exposed to it if they chose not to be. For example, if I go rent a movie and it has a warning on it about extreme violence, and I object to violence, then I can be forewarned and pick a different movie that does not have a warning. If I chose to rent that movie anyways, then I have no right to go complaining about how disgusted I was with the violence, because I was warned and chose to watch it. If there was no warning and I rented it in the belief that it did not contain that material, then I might have a case to complain. If the warning attracts other people to watch it for sensational value, then it's none of my business. Simple. But I don't think, as many people suggest, that it's as easy as holding parents responsible. The reality is that many kids don't have the benefit of parents who can keep track of them so closely. Not everyone has a stable nuclear family. And even if they do, (I know from experience) kids hide things from their parents.

People seem to be talking mostly about banning for reasons of sex or violence. What about political reasons? We had a high profile case involving Holocaust deniers and white supremecists in general, although I don't remember how that turned out. In my country, i believe "inciting hatred" is considered a crime, and I can see that that was intended to protect minorities from psychos, which is a right and honourable thing to do. But people can "incite hatred" through writings, and hence the banning. The definition of "inciting hatred" can also get a little fuzzy, which is a problem. Alot of banning is because the material violates the religious or political ideology of the presiding government. Sad, but the bulk of banning has to do with that, and the reasons can vary from the well intentioned to the self-interested.

Now for the girl talk: I only wear a makeup when I step out of the house. When I turned 18, my mother wouldn't let me out the door without at least mascara! So now, I usually get away with mascara, concealer if required, and lipstick if it's for the evening, although if it's for something important, the eyeshadow comes out. But lately, ive been getting lazy and only using some concealer if I see any red blotches on my face. I really should start using the mascara again.
Anyways, it's a good idea to keep that makeup to a minimum because it's bad for your skin. Clear skin and a clean look is more attractive than any amount of makeup.
Bfs don't have anything to do with makeup. Some guys like the glamour queen look, but I've dated my share of guys who like the clean innocent type. And being smart/nerdy helps. They're less likely to think you are shallow.

Twilight · 02-10-2002, 07:09 PM

I am male, so I don't think I can add much to the makeup discussion. I personally have never worn any. I prefer it when girls keep it to a minimum. In general I feel that they looked better before they put any on.

Warning labels are a good, but what about things that are exposed to all the public where you have no choise if you want to see it or not. Like billboards and things like that. Do you think those should be censored or allow things to be banned?

Alethes · 02-10-2002, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laurelyn

Is there anyone out there on the Moot who thinks banning books is a good idea? If so . . . I'd kind of like to hear the "devil's advocate" speak up here. The other side of the argument often has a ponderable point, and anyway, I need some excuse to quit repeating myself.
"I like to repeat, repeat myself, I like to repeat, repeat . . ." ~Shel silverstien, I think

So, any pro-book-banners?

I'm in favor of banning some books, namely books that glorify racism, violence, and sexual themes. The first one is morally wrong; the last one is morally wrong in some cases, but private in all cases, and IMO just isn't something that should be discussed in books read by children, or even teenagers. While some violence is necessary, glorifying it is morally wrong. Some books, like The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, shouldn't be banned -- some say it is racist, but I think that's an exaggeration.

The best of all worlds, though, would be if people just didn't buy books like those -- that would teach authors what sells and what doesn't, and they wouldn't write those books anymore. Of course, I know that doesn't happen, but it would be nice.

I am a teenage girl, and I have never had a boyfriend and don't plan on having one anytime soon. I almost never wear makeup; I occasionally wear blush to church, on special occasions, and to school on picture days (otherwise, the camera flash washes out my face). I don't really see the point of makeup -- I think I look fine without it and it takes too much time to put on. The girls I know who wear makeup put on too much or put on the wrong color for their complexion, and I don't want to be like that.

mirrille · 02-13-2002, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Twilight

Warning labels are a good, but what about things that are exposed to all the public where you have no choise if you want to see it or not. Like billboards and things like that. Do you think those should be censored or allow things to be banned?

Any company that puts up really objectionable material on a billboard/side of a bus for all to see usually gets blasted by the community for it. As a PR move, they have to retract and apologize for the ad. They usually do this themselves with no encouragement from the government because if they didnt, they'd be in trouble with the general public and people would not buy their stuff. This is at least one situation where the situation fixes itself.

I find that book bans are generally ineffective in keeping people from reading something. You'd have to have a really oppressive country to have enough control to make sure those books aren't being smuggled around. We have to think of other ways to fight things we don't like.

Arathorn · 02-13-2002, 06:04 AM

Yup. Banning is not only ineffective; it makes people more curious of the books and they usually find ways of reading the material.

In my country, it was even believed that the movie censors/classifiers were initally giving films an X-rating to stir public outrage and attention and then giving them an R-rating when the film looks like its going to be a blockbuster.

Can't contribute anything on make-up either but I used to sport shoulder-length hair and treat it with aloe vera. We have some in the garden. Now, with all the work (ok, so I make time for the moot

) I basically have a flat top which requires no brushing when you wake-up.

Laurelyn · 02-13-2002, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Alethes

I'm in favor of banning some books, namely books that glorify racism, violence, and sexual themes. The first one is morally wrong; the last one is morally wrong in some cases, but private in all cases, and IMO just isn't something that should be discussed in books read by children, or even teenagers. While some violence is necessary, glorifying it is morally wrong. Some books, like The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, shouldn't be banned -- some say it is racist, but I think that's an exaggeration.
.

Would you have them banned entirely, or just put on a shelf that, say, only folks over 18 or under 18 w/ a signed slip from their parents could check out, or altogether removed from the library, no, sorry, we don't have that book?
See, I think you're right that books that glorify racism, and violence are pretty much morraly wrong, and sexually explicit books are not a good pick for kids (Actually, the truth is, I don't see why anyone, adults or kids, would want to read a book like that, but that's just my opinion).

jerseydevil · 02-13-2002, 03:14 PM

I don't agree with banning of books at all. First look at Harry Potter - religious groups complain to schools about them teaching witchcraft. People start forcing their beliefs on others and that's where censorship goes wrong. Huck Finn is banned in many schools, so is Wizard of Oz, or Lord of the Flies. Most books aren't banned because of sexual content they are banned for religious reasons and political views.

By banning books or making things taboo - people become more interested in them. Look at any obscure film that has ever been picketted by a religious group - it always has a ton of people go see it and then after everything dies down - people can't even remember the name of it.

I don't want people dictating to me what I can read or see - as long as it is not hurting other people. It's the parents job to raise their children - not the government or companies.

What bothers me most - is that America was the land of freedom - we pride ourselves on it - yet look at how much banning is done by local communities, schools and libraries. A town in New Mexico had a book burning in the streets for Harry Potter - all I kept thinking about was the Salem Witch Trials and the Holocuast. Are people so insecure with themselves and their beliefs that the only way for them to bring up their children the way they believe is to burn books that contain ideas that differ from theirs???!!!!

Laurelyn · 02-13-2002, 04:30 PM

The number one reason for banning kids' books is that the book "attacks autority figures" meaning that it makes the teachers and parents the bad guys. Is that ridiculous or what?

Starr Polish · 02-13-2002, 11:31 PM

Laurelyn, you amaze me at how darn smart you are.

Arathorn · 02-14-2002, 12:05 AM

yeah, Laurelyn, I could've sworn you were at least as young as Starr Polish.

You're in fact much younger

02-09-2002, 11:45 PM	#22
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Huh? Why'd it star me out? I don't swear! Well, it wasn't exactly a nice word, I guess. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

02-10-2002, 12:43 AM	#23
Twilight Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wilmore, KY Posts: 269	You are right about tv. There are lots of shows that are pointless, just plain bad, or inapropriate. Books at least have some good content to them. If anything TV and movies should be even more censored than books. People that read books are the more intelegent type (in general), and they are less likely to be influenced by bad things within the books. People who only watch tv or movies and make that into their life, they just soak it all in and get such a warped view of what life is like. __________________ Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote.

02-10-2002, 01:24 AM	#24
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	For the most part, yes, but look at all the badly written books and how popular they are. V.C. Andrews novels (if you've read one, you've read them all) Those gross romance novels Tamora Pierce And a lot of those rubbish magazines...bleh The Sweet Valley High style books...ugh...a friend of mine reads those, but she's a real boy crazy ditz...hehe. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

02-10-2002, 03:04 AM	#25
CardenIAntauraNauco Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: rural oklahoma Posts: 324	Carden is the proud owner of the 1000th post on General Literature now. __________________ "We will have peace","Yes we will have peace...we will have peace when you and all your works have perished - and the works of your dark lord to whom you would deliver us. You are a liar,Saruman,and a corrupter of men's hearts. You hold out your hand to me and I percieve only a finger of the claw of Mordor. Cruel and cold! Even if your war on me was just - as it was not,for were you ten times as wise you would have no right to rule me and mine, for your own profit you desired-even so, what will you say of your Torches in westfold and the children that lie dead there? And they hewed Hama's body before the gates of Hornburg, after he was dead. When you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows, I will have peace with you and Orthanc. So much for the House of Eorl. A lesser son of greater Sires am I, but I do not need to lick your fingers. Turn elsewither for I fear your voice has lost it's charm.

02-10-2002, 03:50 AM	#26
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Congrats Carden! TV? Huh? What's that? While other kids watch TV, I spend hours reading my stupid history book. groan Now that thing should be banned! Cruel and unusual punishment is illegal! I also don't wear make-up, and well, I brush my hair but I don't do the whole blow-dry-braids-bleach thingie. I've had one boyfriend, and lemme tell ya, I'm in no hurry to do that dealie again! Nah, books are the best form of entertainment and the best way to learn (besides actually experiencing things, which isn't always possible). They should not be banned!!! __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

02-10-2002, 02:34 PM	#27
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Bah, I brush my hair AND I enjoy history ::laughs:: Actually, I am currently reading a book called "You don't know anything about history"...it's got all this stuff they don't teach you in school. The other day I almost got a book called "Entertaining Satan" (how's that for a book title for a Christian to buy? ) about the Salem witch trials, but I didn't. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

02-10-2002, 03:14 PM	#28
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	I have never had a real boyfriend, ever. I do my hair, yeah, but the only makeup I wear is a little bit of powder b/c my face is kinda oily and lip gloss. Occasionally I wear eyeshadow but only for spesh occasions. And you know what? I don't care! I don't see the point of taking that much time in the morning to do the whole major makeup deal, then go to school, flirt and act totally airheaded, only to have all the makeup wear off by 3:00 and your jerky boyfriends dump you after 3 days. I'm different, I admit it! I like learning new things (one of my fave TV channels is the History Channel), I play trombone in band, listen to all kinds of music from broadway to classic rock, read fantasy novels as well as classics like Emma and Jane Eyre, and try to do my best in all my schoolwork (that's why I make A's). I get made fun of a lot by the popular people cuz I 'm considered a nerd or whatever, but I just consider myself someone who goes against what's mainstream for people my age. __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

02-10-2002, 03:18 PM	#29
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	I love the History Channel Wheeeeee! I also watch Discovery and TLC...there is actually decent stuff on those channels. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

02-10-2002, 03:30 PM	#30
galadriel88 Halfwitted Queen of Lothlorien Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Far off in a dream Posts: 1,166	TLC, yeah! I love Trading Spaces, A Wedding Story, A Makeover Story, and Children's Hospital of Orange County. I loved that special the Discovery Channel ran about Alcatraz on Wed. night! __________________ The beuatiful mind/The beautiful heart/Doesn't deserve the pain/How can I stop the rain? -How Can I Stop the Rain? by Kessid, my new favorite band +Every good thing that comes into my life is only a reflection of the greatest gift of all; the offering of yourself, dear Son of God+ Always remember, you're uniqe, just like everybody else! "The one constant through all the years has been the Trombone. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. Its been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again, but the Trombone has marked the time. This field, this section, this band is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and could be again. Oh, people will come . . . people will most definitely come."

02-10-2002, 05:32 PM	#31
mirrille Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 479	It's funny. I like watching documentaries on History channel and Discovery and stuff like that, but I didn't like learning it in class. I guess I don't like having to memorize it for a test. I think that in most cases, a warning label is preferable to a ban. The idea is just so that people who object to certain kinds of material, be they of a sexual or violent nature, do not have to be exposed to it if they chose not to be. For example, if I go rent a movie and it has a warning on it about extreme violence, and I object to violence, then I can be forewarned and pick a different movie that does not have a warning. If I chose to rent that movie anyways, then I have no right to go complaining about how disgusted I was with the violence, because I was warned and chose to watch it. If there was no warning and I rented it in the belief that it did not contain that material, then I might have a case to complain. If the warning attracts other people to watch it for sensational value, then it's none of my business. Simple. But I don't think, as many people suggest, that it's as easy as holding parents responsible. The reality is that many kids don't have the benefit of parents who can keep track of them so closely. Not everyone has a stable nuclear family. And even if they do, (I know from experience) kids hide things from their parents. People seem to be talking mostly about banning for reasons of sex or violence. What about political reasons? We had a high profile case involving Holocaust deniers and white supremecists in general, although I don't remember how that turned out. In my country, i believe "inciting hatred" is considered a crime, and I can see that that was intended to protect minorities from psychos, which is a right and honourable thing to do. But people can "incite hatred" through writings, and hence the banning. The definition of "inciting hatred" can also get a little fuzzy, which is a problem. Alot of banning is because the material violates the religious or political ideology of the presiding government. Sad, but the bulk of banning has to do with that, and the reasons can vary from the well intentioned to the self-interested. Now for the girl talk: I only wear a makeup when I step out of the house. When I turned 18, my mother wouldn't let me out the door without at least mascara! So now, I usually get away with mascara, concealer if required, and lipstick if it's for the evening, although if it's for something important, the eyeshadow comes out. But lately, ive been getting lazy and only using some concealer if I see any red blotches on my face. I really should start using the mascara again. Anyways, it's a good idea to keep that makeup to a minimum because it's bad for your skin. Clear skin and a clean look is more attractive than any amount of makeup. Bfs don't have anything to do with makeup. Some guys like the glamour queen look, but I've dated my share of guys who like the clean innocent type. And being smart/nerdy helps. They're less likely to think you are shallow.

02-10-2002, 07:09 PM	#32
Twilight Elven Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wilmore, KY Posts: 269	I am male, so I don't think I can add much to the makeup discussion. I personally have never worn any. I prefer it when girls keep it to a minimum. In general I feel that they looked better before they put any on. Warning labels are a good, but what about things that are exposed to all the public where you have no choise if you want to see it or not. Like billboards and things like that. Do you think those should be censored or allow things to be banned? __________________ Sometimes I wonder how many monkeys with typewritters it would take to reproduce what I just wrote.

02-13-2002, 06:04 AM	#35
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	Yup. Banning is not only ineffective; it makes people more curious of the books and they usually find ways of reading the material. In my country, it was even believed that the movie censors/classifiers were initally giving films an X-rating to stir public outrage and attention and then giving them an R-rating when the film looks like its going to be a blockbuster. Can't contribute anything on make-up either but I used to sport shoulder-length hair and treat it with aloe vera. We have some in the garden. Now, with all the work (ok, so I make time for the moot ) I basically have a flat top which requires no brushing when you wake-up. __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

02-13-2002, 03:14 PM	#37
jerseydevil I am Freddie/UNDERCOVER/ Founder of The Great Continent of Entmoot Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Plainsboro, NJ Posts: 9,431	I don't agree with banning of books at all. First look at Harry Potter - religious groups complain to schools about them teaching witchcraft. People start forcing their beliefs on others and that's where censorship goes wrong. Huck Finn is banned in many schools, so is Wizard of Oz, or Lord of the Flies. Most books aren't banned because of sexual content they are banned for religious reasons and political views. By banning books or making things taboo - people become more interested in them. Look at any obscure film that has ever been picketted by a religious group - it always has a ton of people go see it and then after everything dies down - people can't even remember the name of it. I don't want people dictating to me what I can read or see - as long as it is not hurting other people. It's the parents job to raise their children - not the government or companies. What bothers me most - is that America was the land of freedom - we pride ourselves on it - yet look at how much banning is done by local communities, schools and libraries. A town in New Mexico had a book burning in the streets for Harry Potter - all I kept thinking about was the Salem Witch Trials and the Holocuast. Are people so insecure with themselves and their beliefs that the only way for them to bring up their children the way they believe is to burn books that contain ideas that differ from theirs???!!!! __________________ Come back! Come back! To Mordor we will take you! "The only thing better than a great plan is implementing a great plan" - JerseyDevil "If everyone agreed with me all the time, everything would be just fine"- JerseyDevil AboutNewJersey.com New Jersey MessageBoard Another Tolkien Forum Memorial to the Twin Towers New Jersey Map Fellowship of the Messageboard Legend of the Jersey Devil Support New Jersey's Liberty Tower Peacefire.org AboutNewJersey.com - New Jersey Travel and Tourism Guide

02-13-2002, 04:30 PM	#38
Laurelyn Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor, right next to Telperion . . . what did you expect, Michigan? Posts: 1,315	The number one reason for banning kids' books is that the book "attacks autority figures" meaning that it makes the teachers and parents the bad guys. Is that ridiculous or what? __________________ The Third Age of Entmoot has begun. Angel of music, guide and guardian! Grant to me your glory! The country I eat and spend the day in is by no means the country I sleep and dream in. Define patriotism. Hold the boat, you spastic monkey! ~ Elenka

02-13-2002, 11:31 PM	#39
Starr Polish Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Slow down and I sail on the river, slow down and I walk to the hill Posts: 2,389	Laurelyn, you amaze me at how darn smart you are. __________________ “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.” –Bertrand Russell

02-14-2002, 12:05 AM	#40
Arathorn Bard of Mangled Songs Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: West of Middle Earth...oh alright...Manila Posts: 2,679	yeah, Laurelyn, I could've sworn you were at least as young as Starr Polish. You're in fact much younger __________________ Power attracts the corruptible. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible. -Missionaria Protectiva, Frank Herbert *Accio, Ash Nazg!* Elennuru s?la lúmenn' omentielvo* (The Death Star shines on the hour of our meeting) - Darth Arathorn Put aside the ranger... Start looking for Mumakil action figures...

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