Carrying things in the spirit world

[Gordis]

Hi, All!
In the thread "Gandalf's second staff" in the movie forum, Halbarad of the Dunedain made an interesting observation, that after the fall in Moria and during imprisonment on Orthanc Gandalf retains not only his staff, but (in the movie as in the book) Gandalf retains his sword Glamdring as well.

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

I think if Gandalf can manage to hold on to his sword then he can certainly hold on to his primary "weapon", his staff.

It has set me thinking and I proposed the following theory on maiar abilities, that I believe belongs more to ME forum, than to the movie forum.

It looks like that persons that are more-than-men (maiar, ringwraiths) can carry things while in the shadow world. Sauron, it seems, managed to retrieve the One from the Fall of Numenor, when his body perished. The ringwraiths while they were traveling through Anorien UNCLAD and invisible to eyes (UT) were not weaponless, I believe.

So perhaps the spirit of Gandalf carried Glamdring and the staff in the shadow world and then made them reappear again in the real world of light?

Originally Posted by Halbarad of the Dunedain

Correct me if i am wrong but does it not say that Sauron left the one ring on Middle-Earth when he was taken to Numenor? Although I don't fully concure with your theory Gordis there still is the point that Gandalf did always have Glamdring, which means that he could very well have always had the same staff.

It seems that Sauron did take the Ring with him to Numenor. Please have a look at the FAQ thread here (Questions E7-E9):
http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q0-InvWhy

How did he carry the Ring to ME after his material body perished?
Tolkien replied himself: "Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred borne on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring" back to Middle-earth after the drowning of Númenor." [L #211 (280)] So Maiar spirits were able to carry things.

I believe that were Sauron already DEAD before Isildur chopped off his finger, his spirit would have carried the Ring away. Isildur was just very lucky to act at the right moment.

Gandalf was a maia, and he also carried a ring - Narya - wherever he went. After the fight with the Barlog Gandalf died. It seems that Gandalf's body perished (burned) and was reformed, rather than regenerated. At least no scars or traces of first-degree burns were visible. He has got a new body much like Sauron did after Numenor. I don't think he sought his old carcass to find Naria and Glamdring and the staff. I believe he carried all the items to Aman as a spirit and then back, and then re-formed them in the physical world.

Let's take the nazgul as a visible (hmm, more like invisible ) example. I had to give the matter some thought in connection with the RPG I found myself involved in, much to my surprise.

Were the unclad nazgul weaponless?
If we remember the Weathertop scene (in the book, not the movie) the 3 nazgul came quite close, but nobody saw any drawn swords:
"three or four tall black figures were standing there on the slope, looking down on them. So black were they that they seemed like black holes in the deep shade behind them. Frodo thought that he heard a faint hiss as of venomous breath and felt a thin piercing chill. Then the shapes slowly advanced."

Then, Frodo put on the Ring and " immediately, though everything else remained as before, dim and dark, the shapes became terribly clear. He was able to see beneath their black wrappings. There were five tall figures: two standing on the lip of the dell, three advancing. In their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes; under their mantles were long grey robes; upon their grey hairs were helms of silver; in their haggard hands were swords of steel".

When the others told their story, it seems they never saw any swords: "At length he gathered from Sam that they had seen nothing but the vague shadowy shapes coming towards them. Suddenly to his horror Sam found that his master had vanished; and at that moment a black shadow rushed past him, and he fell."

It looks like the Ringwraiths carried swords in the spirit word, but could act with them in "the word of light" nonetheless. The hilt of morgul knife has become material after use, while the blade disappeared.

I believe it was the same with Glamdring and with Gandalf's staff.

Any ideas?