Species, please?

[Bronwyn of Gondor]

What exactly IS Gollum, anyway? I've heard several people (including Christopher Lee) say that he is either a creature that's a distant cousin of the Hobbit or he actually IS (or was) a Hobbit... But what is he? What changed him so? Was it just the Ring, or old age or what?

[The Lady of the Wood]

im not sure, but i think in like the prelude to LOTR that gollum is something called a stoor, but im not sure

Òevil will always triumph, because good is dumb.Ó

-darth helmet



donÕt count on me to let you know when.donÕt count on me, ill do it again. dont count on me, the point youre missing, donÕt count on me, cause im not listening.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that are strong do not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring!
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be King!

[The Lady of the Wood]

ok page 51 of FOTR gandalf is talkin about gollum finding the ring.it says about his people-"long after, but still very long ago, there lived by the banks of the great river on the edge of wilderland a clever-handed and quiet-footed little people.i guess they were of hobbit-kind;akin to the fathers of the fathers of the stoors,for they loved the river,and often swam in it,or made little boats of reeds." im not sure how much help that was but oh well

[Bronwyn of Gondor]

I remember reading that too, but it really isn't much of a help... I just remember on the DVD that Christopher Lee had said he was a kind of Hobbit at one time and it just confuzzled me. Anyway... Is there any way that I COULD find out? I have the Tolkein Companion, or something to that effect, but it doesn't say much more than what's in the book itself.

[The Lady of the Wood]

sorry but i have no clue how to find out

[Tar-Elendil]

"long after, but still very long ago, there lived by the banks of the great river of the edge of the wilderland a clever-handed and quiet-footed little people. I guess they were of hobbit-kind; akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors, for they loved the River, and often swam in it, or made little boats of reeds. there was among them a family of high repute, for it was large and wealthier than most, and it was ruled by a grandmother of the folk, stern and wise in old lore, such as they had. The most inquisitive and curious-minded of that family was called smeagol."

smeagol being gollum
that came from fotr "shadow of the past"

taking from that, make your own decision on exactly
what gollum is. But it is definate that he is in close relation to hobbits, if indeed he isnt one himself. After killing his cousin deagol who found the ring in the gladden fields and taking it from him. he used the ring for mischief and was shunned by his family.. he retreated to under the misty mountains. there the ring gave him prolonged life, but it ate him up physically. He was alone in the dark (except for the occasional orc) for 471 years until bilbo came upon him. He became only a shadow of what he once was in those years, the whole time the ring tormenting him mentally.
Three years after he lost the ring, he left the mountains finally after 473 years.

that explain it?

[Ellison]

according to The Two Towers Smeagol was in fact akin to a hobbit, but I don't think that you can call the creature he became (Gollum) a hobbit, or a steer for that matter

[WallRocker]

Closely related to Hobbits, like Tar-Elendil said.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

A STOOR is a group of Hobbit, like hte Harfoots and Fallohides. The Stoor's excavated back to Rhovanion during the Witchkings war with the Northern Dunedain. I would say that Smeagol was a Hobbit.

[Radagast The Brown]

Gollum was defenately a hobbit in his past (about 500 years before his death).

[Blackboar]

He was a Stoor hobbit, but after stealing and killing for the ring retreted to the Misty Mountains for 500 years where he became addicted to the ring and it changed him.

[Tar-Elendil]

Originally posted by Ellison
according to The Two Towers Smeagol was in fact akin to a hobbit, but I don't think that you can call the creature he became (Gollum) a hobbit, or a steer for that matter

he didnt "become" one. he was already one. his physical appearance was changed dramatically; wouldnt yours be if you lived in the dark under the mountains for 500 years?

[cassiopeia]

We don't know for certain that Gollum was a hobbit, Gandalf says "I guess they were of hobbit kind". I would say it is very likely, though, that Gollum is a hobbit, given his similarities to Bilbo.

[Tar-Elendil]

its not only that; its the clues tolkien gives throughout his writing.
like when sam was looking at gollum in mordor, and it said he could have passed for a starved and ancient hobbit (it was something along that, i cant remember for sure)

[Wayfarer]

We can say with some certainty that gollum was human.

[Shadowfax]

Originally posted by Wayfarer
We can say with some certainty that gollum was human.

Where do you get that certainty from? I always thought he was a hobbit.

[Tar-Elendil]

when wayfarer said human im sure he meant hobbit, man, etc.

[BeardofPants]

Hobbits are a sub-species from humans.

[Wayfarer]

Actually, all the races can be considered 'human'.

After all, hobbits were a race of men. Elves and orcs could both breed with men. Elves could also breed with maia, and presumebly with any ainur. That makes them all the same species. The dwarves are the only major race that seems to be a completely independent population.

[Agburanar]

The Stoors were one of the original hobbit clans. During th migrations of hobbits, when some went west to the shire and some went south, the Stoors went to live on the Gladden fields, where Deagol found the ring. There is more detail about hobbit migrations in 'The Atlas of Middle Earth'- it's well worth a read and the technical drawings are fantastic.