Boromir I became a wraith?

[Gordis]

I have a small question for you that I came by while reading the tread “Men of the Appendices”
Remember Boromir I son of Denethor I ?

In the last years of Denethor I the race of uruks, black orcs of great strength, first appeared out of Mordor, and in 2475 they swept across Ithilien and took Osgiliath. Boromir son of Denethor (after whom Boromir of the Nine Walkers was later named) defeated them and regained Ithilien; but Osgiliath was finally ruined, and its great stone-bridge was broken. No people dwelt there afterwards. Boromir was a great captain, and even the Witch-king feared him. He was noble and fair of face, a man strong in body and in will, but he received a Morgul-wound in that war which shortened his days, and he became shrunken with pain and died twelve year after his father.(2489).

So, Boromir I received a Morgul-wound and lived for 14 years? How was that possible? Frodo was expected to die within a few days after his wound! Did Boromir get medical (magical) help? And from whom? Aragorn and Glorfindel were both unable to heal Frodo, only Elrond was capable of it. But Erlond was hardly present in Minas-Tirith in 2475. So who has helped Boromir? And did he eventually die “normally” or did he become a wraith and joined Earnur’s company in Minas Morgul?

[inked]

Great observation! I suspect that he received elvish medicine and did not become a wraith but died very prematurely by the standards of his people. Recall that Frodo's wound per Gandalf was not wholly able to be healed in this world. And Frodo's dealing with the afte-reffects was not pleasant physically or psychologically or spiritually. And he had the unexpected Hobbit resistance to the wound! All IMHO, of course.

Had Boromir I become a wraith (or Tolkien intended us to understand that), I think there would have been descriptions of the abnormality of his physical illness and absence or disappearance rather than death.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I agree with inked. If he had become a wraith then he would have been noted disappeared, not died. I suspect that by Morgul wound Tolkien did not mean the kind that Frodo had, but some other Morgul wound. Also the Nine were around at the end of SA, and at the end of TA there was still only Nine. Surely if he became a wraith he would have fought for Sauron with the Nine, mybe perhaps with the promise of one of the Nine rings if he performed great deeds and served Sauron well.

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

I suspect that by Morgul wound Tolkien did not mean the kind that Frodo had, but some other Morgul wound.

Agreed! Morgul just means "sorcery" (IIRC) and this is a pretty vague word.

[Pytt]

Yes, agree with TD and Beren. I'm not very into this story, but I agree that Tolkien wouldn't have written 'died' if he became a ghost.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

Morgul just means "sorcery" (IIRC) and this is a pretty vague word.

I have to disagree sorry. "Morgul wound" and "morgul blade" are terms meaning specifically the kind of weapons and wounds nazgul used to turn mortals into wraiths. It is not just a poisoned arrow or something else. Aragorn used “Morgul blade” as a term.

Interestingly, Aragorn knew pretty well about morgul wounds from the beginning. At the time of Weathertop attack he recognized the knife immediately. However, by that time the nazgul were a long-forgotten history. Gandalf said they were not seen in the world for a very long time. Why, Boromir II has not even recognised the Witch-King when he appeared at the battle of Osgiliath. (Strange, isn't it, in Gondor they must have known all along who the Lord of Morgul was). So where has Aragorn picked his knowledge about Morgul blades? From Gondor lore, I think, which he learned while he served there as Thorongil. And IMHO, it was the story of Boromir I that still circulated in Gondor. There must have been other similar stories with less lucky victims.

If Boromir has not become a wraith, then he must have had magical assistance. Whose assistance? Hardly Elrond's. I think of either Gandalf or Saruman.

Originally Posted by Telcontar Dunadan

Also the Nine were around at the end of SA, and at the end of TA there was still only Nine. Surely if he became a wraith he would have fought for Sauron with the Nine, mybe perhaps with the promise of one of the Nine rings if he performed great deeds and served Sauron well.

A person “taken” by a Morgul blade will never become a Ringwraith! The nazgul were “taken” by their rings and got a long life and a great power etc. In other words they were Lords of the Wraiths. Boromir (and Frodo) would have become just simple wraiths. Almost like the Nine, but much weaker and subject to their will. Every time a nazgul used his special brand blade, there was a new wraith in their service.
I think there were lots of wraiths in Minas Morgul.
Look at Minas Morgul descriptions: ” The tower isn't empty, is it? ' `O no, not empty! ' whispered Gollum. `It seems empty, but it isn't, O no! Very dreadful things live there. Orcs, yes always Orcs; but worse things, worse things live there too”. Faramir says almost the same: The nazgul “took Minas Ithil and dwelt there, and they filled it, and all the valley about, with decay: it seemed empty and was not so, for a shapeless fear lived within the ruined walls.“It is a place of sleepless malice, full of lidless eyes”. Even the valley was called “Imlad Morgul, the Valley of Living Death” (Faramir’s words). It was no place for the living beings, even the river was poisoned.

What was it that the Witch-King treatened to do to Eowyn? “ I will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye”. In other words it means: “I will stab you with a Morgul knife and you will become a wraith”. That is what the Morgul King usually did to those who hindered him. What do you think has become of Earnur, the last King of Gondor? Most likely he was not tortured to death, as it was believed in Gondor. The Witch King was too cruel to let an enemy escape to Mandos. IMHO Earnur has become a wraith and polished the Witch-King’s boots and mended his cloaks ever since.

[CrazySquirrel]

The crowd in Mandos? I forgot was Mandos supposed to JUDGE all the men or just send them further? Anyone has any idea?

Originally Posted by inked

Great observation! I suspect that he received elvish medicine and did not become a wraith but died very prematurely by the standards of his people. Recall that Frodo's wound per Gandalf was not wholly able to be healed in this world. And Frodo's dealing with the afte-reffects was not pleasant physically or psychologically or spiritually. And he had the unexpected Hobbit resistance to the wound! All IMHO, of course.

Had Boromir I become a wraith (or Tolkien intended us to understand that), I think there would have been descriptions of the abnormality of his physical illness and absence or disappearance rather than death.

My thoughts also.
And what do you think perhaps the Stewards didn't claim the throne because they KNEW King Earnur WAS NOT DEAD? Perhaps they waited for him to come all cold and transparent-like to claim the Throne?

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

No. The fact that Firiel married Arvedui, an heir of Isildur,was probably a well known fact. They were probably waiting for one of their heirs to come and claim the throne.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

No. The fact that Firiel married Arvedui, an heir of Isildur,was probably a well known fact. They were probably waiting for one of their heirs to come and claim the throne.

Gondor has rejected Arvedui's claim to the throne as women (Firiel) were not allowed to rule or to pass the right to the throne to their children. Aragorn claimed the Throne as a hair of Elendil and Isildur decended from father to son as the line direct of Anarion has died.
As for the "wraith Earnur", I doubt Gondor would be happy if he returned one day... Strange the Morgul Lord has not played this card, though. It might have been a very cruel joke.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by gordis

As for the "wraith Earnur", I doubt Gondor would be happy if he returned one day... Strange the Morgul Lord has not played this card, though. It might have been a very cruel joke.

He did not need Earnur when he had such ace card in his sleeve as the Witch -king, one of the mightiest kings of Numenor. Elendil and sons, no matter how noble and great they have been, were just one of his vassals, and
whatever land they acqired by the law should be subjected to legitimate ruler. In this light the Witch-King's claiming of Arnor doesn't look as far fetched moves, but as a purposeful determination to take what is rightfully belongs to him. First-Arnor, then-Gondor...
Sauron was quite content with such perspective.

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

No. The fact that Firiel married Arvedui, an heir of Isildur,was probably a well known fact. They were probably waiting for one of their heirs to come and claim the throne.

Yes - everyone would have known that Firiel married Arvedui, went to Arthedain and began having children. However - there's no way the people (or Council) of Gondor were waiting around for one of those descendants to come down and claim the throne. For one, they had rejected an earlier (and therefore closer) claim over 100 years before. Second - Arthedain had not existed for a good 75 years. There were no more palantiri in the north and probably no contact between the Chieftains and Gondor. Most Gondorians probably assumed they had just died off - and wouldn't have given any thought to giving their crown to a vagabond descendant of kings even if they showed themselves (and the one to do so would still have been Aranarth - eldest son of Arvedui and Firiel - who would still be Chieftain for another 50+ years).

[Beregond]

So, Boromir I received a Morgul-wound and lived for 14 years? How was that possible? Frodo was expected to die within a few days after his wound! Did Boromir get medical (magical) help? And from whom? Aragorn and Glorfindel were both unable to heal Frodo, only Elrond was capable of it.

Does it Actualy say anywhere that it was Elrond who healed Frodo or do we all just asume it was him? All we know is that he got taken back to Rivendale and was healed.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

A shard of the blade broke off when WK stabbed Frodo. I assume that it didn't happen in this case, and that he was stabbed, but no shard broke off.

[Alcuin]

I interpreted that to mean that Boromir the Steward was stabbed by a Morgul knife, he did suffer whatever the wound delivered, which quite possibly included a shard of the knife, just as Frodo did. Boromir’s splinter was removed, but he lived thereafter in pain, his physical stamina was seriously reduced, and he died young (at that time) for a member of the House of Húrin (of Gondor).

The splinter from the Morgul knife was not necessarily fatal if it could be removed. Aragorn, Glorfindel, Gandalf, and Elrond were all aware of this, probably from their experiences in the wars between Angmar and the Dúnedain of Arnor. It is likely that the Dúnedain of Gondor were aware of it, too, even though their ability to deal with such weapons might have been considerably less than that in the North.

And yes, Gandalf explicitly says that Elrond found the splinter and removed it.