A musical will ruin the story! - Page 2

***azalea*** · 06-05-2003, 10:39 PM

He was, and the script is housed on the Tolkien Trail, but unfortunately they were unable to come up with enough money to back it for production. Now it turns out someone else is doing it.

gimli7410 · 06-05-2003, 10:55 PM

oh where abouts do i go to look at the script on the site

hama1 · 06-06-2003, 11:11 AM

no...unfortunately.

hama1 · 06-06-2003, 11:13 AM

Gimli,

Go to the Tolkien Trail main page. The link to The One Ring is on the right hand side of the main page.

Hama

gimli7410 · 06-06-2003, 11:15 AM

yea i just read the script and it looks pretty good. sorry about the financial problems

LutraMage · 06-22-2003, 07:42 AM

You ever play the old mime game where you begin: 'is it a book, or a film, or a play, or a song?' etc? Well, LoTR is just such a fantastic book, a real genuine ground breaking classic, so it is no surprise that it should be turned into a film, an animation and now a musical. The material is just too good for writers not to want to adapt it.

For me, it doesn't matter how good or bad what they do is, nor that I can't imagine the characters singing and dancing - the musical won't be 'the book' it will just be a musical based on the book. If its a good musical I'll enjoy it, if its poor, I won't bother to go see it. BUT IT WON'T REPLACE THE BOOK OR DAMAGE THE BOOK, in other words, it can't "ruin the story" because the story is already written and the worst they can do is make a bad musical. So I won't let what they do bother me too much - just like the film.

hama1 · 06-26-2003, 12:24 AM

Gimli,

I just re-read the script...I hadn't looked at it in a while. I think the first scene sucks. I have written and rewritten it so many times that it seems very cut up and at times repetitive...after that I don't think it is too bad.

LutraMage,

I really like your point of view. You are right that LotR is a classic and will stand alone for the ages. It would be a shame if they made a bad musical (especially after I have written such a good one...

) However, I am curious about your comment that "you can't imagine the characters singing..." What do you imagine when you read passages in the books where the characters ARE singing?

Hama

nessa · 09-06-2003, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hama1
I can't see any of the characters dancing either...that is why I haven't written any music for dance or planned on any choreography. As for not being able to envision any of the characters singing my only question is..."Have you read any of the books?" Sorry that was kind of mean but there are over 150 pages of lyrics in LOTR. Somebody must be singing them!

I thought, excuse me if I'm wrong, that they were mostly poems? JRR does not strike me as a dance hall entrepeneur?

Are you involved in bringing a musical to life? I have heard that someone was thinking of this. The movies have made enough of a mess! Please...!

Galenavar · 09-07-2003, 09:53 PM

Yes, they are poems, but then, most songs are poems. You can tell that they are songs because quite frequently Tolkein writes that someone is singing them.

And, yes, Hama was planning on doing a musical of LotR. Unfortunately, someone else beat him to it. The LotR musical is being worked on as we speak. Or so I assume, since the news came out a while back.

As for the movies and half a dozen other of my arguments, please read them in earlier posts and in the multiple other threads arguing over the movie and the musical.

hectorberlioz · 12-22-2003, 01:02 AM

I support the musical!

go musical!

Diamond · 12-29-2003, 06:35 PM

I'm not completely against the idea of a LOTR musical, but you'll have to excuse my skepticism. Nothing is impossible, particularly where theatre is concerned, but pulling off a story that is loved by many millions of people in this sort of medium is going to take skill on the part of everyone involved down to the last stagehand. Everyone is going to have an opinion on it. You can't please everyone all the time.

If nothing else, it would be good for a giggle or two.

Liz

Lumox · 12-30-2003, 02:10 PM

To attempt to bring the LOTR to a broadway stage is perhaps the most contrived, naive, and foolish ideas I've ever run across, even within the broadness of the internet.

To begin with, and this is probably the only reason that needs be supplied here, LOTR is an epic tale which is both vast and complex. To bring it to the screen took over nine hours, and that was with plenty of cuts of it's own. The only way to ever fit the gigantic proportions of Tolkien's tale would be to trim it to bare bones, stripping it of all it's charms.

Not to mention that the stage is supposed to be a place where character and emotion is expressed, not where plot is unraveled. Tolkien's LOTR was not about character, but about people, and places, and deeds. It is also about subtlety. How do you expect to take over 1,000 pages of literature, put it in, at most, a 3 hour production, and keep all of that?

There are plenty more points I could argue, but the whole idea is so silly I don't even feel a need for it. In short, the LOTR was written as a book, with the intentions and ambitions of a book. If it were meant for the stage, it would have been written as a screenplay. But indeed it was not, and that should be the end of it once and for all.

P.S.- Hama, it is rather conceited of you to point out that there is over 100 pages of lyrics in LOTR, and then not include any of or even a hint of them in your own lyrics. It absolutely ruins the flavor of the tale.

ethuiliel · 01-11-2004, 06:01 PM

I don't think it's a bad idea. There were a lot of song and poems that could be sung in the story, and if they were the songs that were used I think it would be fine. It would be a different way of addapting the books than the movie was, but I don't think it will be bad.

06-05-2003, 10:55 PM	#22
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	oh where abouts do i go to look at the script on the site __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow. Last edited by gimli7410 : 06-05-2003 at 10:57 PM.

06-06-2003, 11:15 AM	#25
gimli7410 the dumb stoner canuck Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: canada Posts: 2,542	yea i just read the script and it looks pretty good. sorry about the financial problems __________________ -"Down with the system"-Serj tankian of system of a down -“Humans have been on the earth for millions of years, yet we don’t believe man began thinking until he started building walls. And what good have these walls ever done us?”-Serj tankian of soad -"stupid people do stupid things"-Serj tankian of soad "Trying is the first step to failure" Homer Simpson "It isn't going to be easy"-jerseydevil "only the good die young" I AM CANADIAN If the people lead, the leaders will follow.

06-22-2003, 07:42 AM	#26
LutraMage Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Tolkien's England where the tale grew in the telling... Posts: 330	You ever play the old mime game where you begin: 'is it a book, or a film, or a play, or a song?' etc? Well, LoTR is just such a fantastic book, a real genuine ground breaking classic, so it is no surprise that it should be turned into a film, an animation and now a musical. The material is just too good for writers not to want to adapt it. For me, it doesn't matter how good or bad what they do is, nor that I can't imagine the characters singing and dancing - the musical won't be 'the book' it will just be a musical based on the book. If its a good musical I'll enjoy it, if its poor, I won't bother to go see it. BUT IT WON'T REPLACE THE BOOK OR DAMAGE THE BOOK, in other words, it can't "ruin the story" because the story is already written and the worst they can do is make a bad musical. So I won't let what they do bother me too much - just like the film. Last edited by LutraMage : 06-22-2003 at 02:01 PM.

09-07-2003, 09:53 PM	#29
Galenavar Elven Warrior Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: WI Posts: 129	Yes, they are poems, but then, most songs are poems. You can tell that they are songs because quite frequently Tolkein writes that someone is singing them. And, yes, Hama was planning on doing a musical of LotR. Unfortunately, someone else beat him to it. The LotR musical is being worked on as we speak. Or so I assume, since the news came out a while back. As for the movies and half a dozen other of my arguments, please read them in earlier posts and in the multiple other threads arguing over the movie and the musical. __________________ Galenavar Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo If there's no magic, there's no meaning.

12-22-2003, 01:02 AM	#30
hectorberlioz Master of Orchestration President Emeritus of Entmoot 2004-2008 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Lost in the Opera House Posts: 9,328	I support the musical! go musical! __________________ ACALEWIA- President of Entmoot hectorberlioz- Vice President of Entmoot Acaly und Hektor fur Presidants fur EntMut fur life! Join the discussion at Entmoot Election 2010. "Stupidissimo!"~Toscanini The Da CINDY Code The Epic Poem Of The Balrog of Entmoot: Here ~NEW! ~ Thinking of summer vacation? AboutNewJersey.com - NJ Travel & Tourism Guide

06-05-2003, 10:39 PM	#21
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	He was, and the script is housed on the Tolkien Trail, but unfortunately they were unable to come up with enough money to back it for production. Now it turns out someone else is doing it.

06-06-2003, 11:11 AM	#23
hama1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NY and MA Posts: 133	no...unfortunately.

06-06-2003, 11:13 AM	#24
hama1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NY and MA Posts: 133	Gimli, Go to the Tolkien Trail main page. The link to The One Ring is on the right hand side of the main page. Hama

06-26-2003, 12:24 AM	#27
hama1 Elven Warrior Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NY and MA Posts: 133	Gimli, I just re-read the script...I hadn't looked at it in a while. I think the first scene sucks. I have written and rewritten it so many times that it seems very cut up and at times repetitive...after that I don't think it is too bad. LutraMage, I really like your point of view. You are right that LotR is a classic and will stand alone for the ages. It would be a shame if they made a bad musical (especially after I have written such a good one... ) However, I am curious about your comment that "you can't imagine the characters singing..." What do you imagine when you read passages in the books where the characters ARE singing? Hama

12-29-2003, 06:35 PM	#31
Diamond Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Minas Tirith Posts: 45	I'm not completely against the idea of a LOTR musical, but you'll have to excuse my skepticism. Nothing is impossible, particularly where theatre is concerned, but pulling off a story that is loved by many millions of people in this sort of medium is going to take skill on the part of everyone involved down to the last stagehand. Everyone is going to have an opinion on it. You can't please everyone all the time. If nothing else, it would be good for a giggle or two. Liz __________________ I see in your eyes the fear that would take the heart of me... There will be a day when the strength of men fails, but it is not this day!" "He was twitching!" "He was twitching because he has my axe embedded in his nervous system!"

12-30-2003, 02:10 PM	#32
Lumox Sapling Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1	To attempt to bring the LOTR to a broadway stage is perhaps the most contrived, naive, and foolish ideas I've ever run across, even within the broadness of the internet. To begin with, and this is probably the only reason that needs be supplied here, LOTR is an epic tale which is both vast and complex. To bring it to the screen took over nine hours, and that was with plenty of cuts of it's own. The only way to ever fit the gigantic proportions of Tolkien's tale would be to trim it to bare bones, stripping it of all it's charms. Not to mention that the stage is supposed to be a place where character and emotion is expressed, not where plot is unraveled. Tolkien's LOTR was not about character, but about people, and places, and deeds. It is also about subtlety. How do you expect to take over 1,000 pages of literature, put it in, at most, a 3 hour production, and keep all of that? There are plenty more points I could argue, but the whole idea is so silly I don't even feel a need for it. In short, the LOTR was written as a book, with the intentions and ambitions of a book. If it were meant for the stage, it would have been written as a screenplay. But indeed it was not, and that should be the end of it once and for all. P.S.- Hama, it is rather conceited of you to point out that there is over 100 pages of lyrics in LOTR, and then not include any of or even a hint of them in your own lyrics. It absolutely ruins the flavor of the tale.

01-11-2004, 06:01 PM	#33
ethuiliel Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: USA until I find a way to get to Middle Earth Posts: 681	I don't think it's a bad idea. There were a lot of song and poems that could be sung in the story, and if they were the songs that were used I think it would be fine. It would be a different way of addapting the books than the movie was, but I don't think it will be bad. __________________ "...but I love not the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor." "'I would,' said Faramir. And he took her in his arms and kissed her under the sunlit sky, and he cared not that they stood high upon the walls in the sight of many. And many indeed saw them and the light that shone about them as they came down from the walls and went hand in hand to the Houses of Healing."

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