Forget The Force -- "The Lord" Rules!

Rána Eressëa · 01-19-2002, 07:15 PM

This is an amazing article about the movie, and I thought that many people on this board should read it -- Forget The Force -- "The Lord" Rules!

Here's a long excerpt...

"Still, the heart and soul of both films is character, not plot. After all, we remember "Star Wars" not as the tale of a vast and unmanageable empire, but as Luke's transformation from Toshi Station mall rat to mystic Jedi knight. Frodo Baggins, the hobbit hero of "The Fellowship of the Ring," also yearns for adventure. He idolizes his weird Uncle Bilbo's adventures, adventures that could take him from the boring but idyllic life in the Shire.

But when a wizard named Gandalf shows up with an all-important adventure that has to start immediately, what does Frodo do? He panics! He goes only reluctantly, always under the impression that he'll get to go home once the first step is through. Frodo doesn't just whine like Luke, he winces, cowers and weeps and is pretty much uncool through most of the film. And as such, the hobbit Frodo -- unlike fun, daring hero Luke Skywalker -- becomes more human than the human Skywalker.

Luke is what whiny dorks daydream they would be. When adventure comes calling, they'd sign up immediately, and succeed totally. Frodo, on the other hand, is the way we are: comfortable in our inadequate lives, yet terrified of change. I cry like a baby if the candy machine at work is on the fritz. If I were being chased by some spectral hooded spirit out for my blood, I'd likely go catatonic.

Despite his fears, Frodo goes on his quest -- after all, it wouldn't be much of a monomyth or movie if he stayed, but you never lose the feeling of trepidation that Frodo has. Even if there weren't computer-generated baddies stabbing him at every turn, you know he'd still be bummed about leaving town. His companion Sam is quite vocal about his concerns. He may dream of the outside world, but the reality of going there is awkward and horrible, and it's not often you see an action-adventure film that details homesickness as a movie-long affliction...

I don't remember what I went into "Lord of the Rings" expecting, other than an unsatisfying image of a Balrog, but I came out with so much more. The film transcended itself and took me to a place I hadn't yet been ready to go. This absurd film of hobbits and dwarves and goblins and orcs said enough things to me about living a real everyday life in 21st century America to make it seem truly possible.

So maybe it's not so much that "Lord of the Rings" is better than "Star Wars," but that "Lord of the Rings" is somehow more real than "Star Wars." And right now, that's what I wanted.

There's a scene at the end of "Fellowship of the Ring" -- easily one of the most powerful in the film, and one that perhaps one day will also take a throne in the annals of cinematic history -- when Frodo's devoted friend Sam risks drowning rather than let his friend head off to certain death alone. In the books we know Sam fears water -- but the movie doesn't delve into that. Jackson focuses instead on Sam's simple devotion: Sam wades into a river after Frodo's boat. Underwater and close to death, we see Sam go limp, until Frodo's arm juts down, grabbing Sam's wrist. There's a pause, then the two hands clasp.

Sam isn't alone in being pulled up from the brink. We were, too. George Lucas knows how to make money better than he does how to make films, and it's clear at this point that Lucas doesn't give a damn about the depth some of us wanted to give to his best movie. It was just a movie, and we should just shut up or move on.

And the nice thing is now we can. Because it's obvious that Peter Jackson is as earnest as, well, Luke Skywalker, and Jackson wants his films to be more than that."

FrodoFriend · 01-20-2002, 05:01 PM

Yay!!!! More praise for LotR!!! Did you read the original, anti-LotR posted by Jean Tang? That woman has problems!!! Condoning stormtroopers but not orcs, what a lunatic!!

Renille · 01-20-2002, 05:40 PM

That was a really cool article. But hadn't they figured out that LOTR is the best BEFORE now?

Luthien Tinuviel · 01-20-2002, 06:02 PM

yea, i had already read that article. That was cool. I really odn't like star wars.

FrodoFriend · 01-20-2002, 08:18 PM

Well, I like Star Wars too (the original trilogy), but come on . . . it just doesn't compare! I never got the same emotional depth out of Star Wars (movie or book-of-the-movie), and the characters were never as endearing. LORD OF THE RINGS ALL THE WAY!!

samwise of the shire · 01-20-2002, 08:54 PM

YYAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!*Turns semi flip and falls on keister*. but I mean it isn't hard to beat Star Wars in any movie. Sure it was a break from the boring monotonous moralistic movies they had before Star Wars came out but Lord Of The Rings has Harry Potter beat(I've never seen it but I'm sure that owuldn't be to hard).
the Groovin' Sam

FrodoFriend · 01-20-2002, 08:59 PM

Y'know, I somehow doubt that anyone is going to come and post a message supporting Star Wars or Harry Potter. I'd like to think that this is because Lord of the Rings is obviously recognized by the entire population of the world as the best movie ever, but it may only be because this is a Lord of the Rings messageboard.

Gerbil · 01-21-2002, 09:59 PM

A couple of points:
1) I'm undecided if LotR is the best film ever. How can we know until we've seen all 3 films and also seen every film ever made?

2) Star Wars rocks! It's just a different type of film. By the way by Star Wars I mean Episodes 4,5 and 6. Not the new abominations that George Lucas is creating from his elderly lack of genius state. Episode 1 was utter utter rubbish. Rather than condone it cos it's SW, I find it easier to not think of it as SW at all. That bloody Gungan...
3) Harry Potter is also just a different type of film. Namely a **** one

Quazar · 01-22-2002, 07:56 PM

I enjoyed Harry Potter, if it hadn't come out just before FOTR there would not be these comparisons. It is just a different type of movie. I wonder if there is a HP mesasage center where people trash the director for changing things from the book to the movie

Gerbil · 01-22-2002, 08:37 PM

I agree that the timing is obviously what set HP against FotR.
But I am 100% that if they were far apart, when I saw HP I'd still come out thinking it was too long winded and basically a waste of money. It just wasn't exciting at all. The Quiditch (sp?) match was the only part of more than about 3 seconds consecutive 'enjoyment', and that was rubbish and badly done.

FrodoFriend · 01-22-2002, 10:29 PM

I loved the Quidditch match! But that's the only part I really remember. HP seems to just sort of . . . fade out of memory. Nothing particularly remarkable about it.

Atisha · 01-23-2002, 07:28 AM

Yesss! The Lord rules!!!! No doubt about that!
When I went to see FOTR, they showed this new SW-Trailer, and the reaction of the audience (me included) was spontaneous: everybody was cheering and yelling in favour of LOTR rather than wanting to see the trailer! I mean 300 people agree on not liking Star Wars...

Gerbil · 01-23-2002, 09:45 AM

Atisha - love your sig *kiss*

As for HP, there's apparently a series of excellent children's books out by a guy called Philip Pullman. The trilogy is called His Dark Materials or summat. The last book has just won book of the year (uncluding all adults books, IE winner over everything) over here.
I'll probably read that.
From it's description it's everything HP simply isn't. Entertaining, well written, worthwhile for adults, and simply put - great.

FrodoFriend · 01-24-2002, 02:04 AM

Oooh, yes, read them!!! His Dark Material is amazing!!! I was bawling like a baby at the end of the third book (The Amber Spyglass)!!! Philip Pullman has a wonderful talent for vivid writing and especially emotional scenes. His characters are so real and very original.

Atisha · 01-24-2002, 05:32 AM

Oooooh, Gerbil, you naughty rodent, you...
*faint*

Gerbil · 01-24-2002, 08:26 AM

Was my breath really bad enough to make you faint?
Sorry

They don't make toothbrushes in my size...

Atisha · 01-24-2002, 11:04 AM

I guess it was just your sheer rodentness that swept me away...

Let me say that I totally agree with you on SW. Episode I really was somewhat offputting...

01-19-2002, 07:15 PM	#1
Rána Eressëa The Rogue Elf Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,722	Forget The Force -- "The Lord" Rules! This is an amazing article about the movie, and I thought that many people on this board should read it -- Forget The Force -- "The Lord" Rules! Here's a long excerpt... "Still, the heart and soul of both films is character, not plot. After all, we remember "Star Wars" not as the tale of a vast and unmanageable empire, but as Luke's transformation from Toshi Station mall rat to mystic Jedi knight. Frodo Baggins, the hobbit hero of "The Fellowship of the Ring," also yearns for adventure. He idolizes his weird Uncle Bilbo's adventures, adventures that could take him from the boring but idyllic life in the Shire. But when a wizard named Gandalf shows up with an all-important adventure that has to start immediately, what does Frodo do? He panics! He goes only reluctantly, always under the impression that he'll get to go home once the first step is through. Frodo doesn't just whine like Luke, he winces, cowers and weeps and is pretty much uncool through most of the film. And as such, the hobbit Frodo -- unlike fun, daring hero Luke Skywalker -- becomes more human than the human Skywalker. Luke is what whiny dorks daydream they would be. When adventure comes calling, they'd sign up immediately, and succeed totally. Frodo, on the other hand, is the way we are: comfortable in our inadequate lives, yet terrified of change. I cry like a baby if the candy machine at work is on the fritz. If I were being chased by some spectral hooded spirit out for my blood, I'd likely go catatonic. Despite his fears, Frodo goes on his quest -- after all, it wouldn't be much of a monomyth or movie if he stayed, but you never lose the feeling of trepidation that Frodo has. Even if there weren't computer-generated baddies stabbing him at every turn, you know he'd still be bummed about leaving town. His companion Sam is quite vocal about his concerns. He may dream of the outside world, but the reality of going there is awkward and horrible, and it's not often you see an action-adventure film that details homesickness as a movie-long affliction... I don't remember what I went into "Lord of the Rings" expecting, other than an unsatisfying image of a Balrog, but I came out with so much more. The film transcended itself and took me to a place I hadn't yet been ready to go. This absurd film of hobbits and dwarves and goblins and orcs said enough things to me about living a real everyday life in 21st century America to make it seem truly possible. So maybe it's not so much that "Lord of the Rings" is better than "Star Wars," but that "Lord of the Rings" is somehow more real than "Star Wars." And right now, that's what I wanted. There's a scene at the end of "Fellowship of the Ring" -- easily one of the most powerful in the film, and one that perhaps one day will also take a throne in the annals of cinematic history -- when Frodo's devoted friend Sam risks drowning rather than let his friend head off to certain death alone. In the books we know Sam fears water -- but the movie doesn't delve into that. Jackson focuses instead on Sam's simple devotion: Sam wades into a river after Frodo's boat. Underwater and close to death, we see Sam go limp, until Frodo's arm juts down, grabbing Sam's wrist. There's a pause, then the two hands clasp. Sam isn't alone in being pulled up from the brink. We were, too. George Lucas knows how to make money better than he does how to make films, and it's clear at this point that Lucas doesn't give a damn about the depth some of us wanted to give to his best movie. It was just a movie, and we should just shut up or move on. And the nice thing is now we can. Because it's obvious that Peter Jackson is as earnest as, well, Luke Skywalker, and Jackson wants his films to be more than that."

01-20-2002, 05:01 PM	#2
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Yay!!!! More praise for LotR!!! Did you read the original, anti-LotR posted by Jean Tang? That woman has problems!!! Condoning stormtroopers but not orcs, what a lunatic!! __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-20-2002, 05:40 PM	#3
Renille Elven Lady of Speed-posting Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the cheese state Posts: 988	That was a really cool article. But hadn't they figured out that LOTR is the best BEFORE now? __________________ Oh the thinks you can think! Think and wonder and dream...far and wide as you dare! When your thinks have run dry, in the blink of an eye, there's another world there... (from Seussical the Musical. Listen to it...watch it...really.)

01-20-2002, 06:02 PM	#4
Luthien Tinuviel Hobbit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Middle Earth Posts: 38	yea, i had already read that article. That was cool. I really odn't like star wars. __________________ The leaves were long, the grass was green, The hamlock-umbels tall and fair, And in the glade a light was seen, Of stars in shadow shimmering. Tinúviel was dancing there To music of a pipe unseen, And light of starts was in her hair, And in her raiment glimmering There Beren came from mountains cold, And lost he wandered under leaves, And where the Elven-river rolled. He walked alone and sorrowing. He peered between the hemlock-leaves And saw in wonder flowers of gold Upon her mantle and her sleeves, And her hair like shadow following. He sought her ever, wandering far Where leaves or years were thickly strewn, By light of moon and ray of star In frosty heavens shivering. Her mantle glinted in the moon. And on a hill-top high and far She danced, and at her feet was strewn A mist of silver quivering.

01-20-2002, 08:18 PM	#5
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Well, I like Star Wars too (the original trilogy), but come on . . . it just doesn't compare! I never got the same emotional depth out of Star Wars (movie or book-of-the-movie), and the characters were never as endearing. LORD OF THE RINGS ALL THE WAY!! __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-20-2002, 08:54 PM	#6
samwise of the shire Radically Tolkienited Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: If home is where the heart is, and my heart is in heaven...that should answer your question. <+>< Posts: 967	YYAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!Turns semi flip and falls on keister. but I mean it isn't hard to beat Star Wars in any movie. Sure it was a break from the boring monotonous moralistic movies they had before Star Wars came out but Lord Of The Rings has Harry Potter beat(I've never seen it but I'm sure that owuldn't be to hard). the Groovin' Sam __________________ Jesus is my all in all <><+<><+<><+<><+<><+<><+ People who are so concerned with escapism do have a name...we call them jailers. ~J.R.R Tolkien Radically Saved, Totally Tolkienited GOD... BLESS... AMERICA...

01-20-2002, 08:59 PM	#7
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Y'know, I somehow doubt that anyone is going to come and post a message supporting Star Wars or Harry Potter. I'd like to think that this is because Lord of the Rings is obviously recognized by the entire population of the world as the best movie ever, but it may only be because this is a Lord of the Rings messageboard. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-21-2002, 09:59 PM	#8
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	A couple of points: 1) I'm undecided if LotR is the best film ever. How can we know until we've seen all 3 films and also seen every film ever made? 2) Star Wars rocks! It's just a different type of film. By the way by Star Wars I mean Episodes 4,5 and 6. Not the new abominations that George Lucas is creating from his elderly lack of genius state. Episode 1 was utter utter rubbish. Rather than condone it cos it's SW, I find it easier to not think of it as SW at all. That bloody Gungan... 3) Harry Potter is also just a different type of film. Namely a **** one __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

01-22-2002, 07:56 PM	#9
Quazar Hobbit Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Piedmont North Carolina Posts: 33	I enjoyed Harry Potter, if it hadn't come out just before FOTR there would not be these comparisons. It is just a different type of movie. I wonder if there is a HP mesasage center where people trash the director for changing things from the book to the movie

01-22-2002, 08:37 PM	#10
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	I agree that the timing is obviously what set HP against FotR. But I am 100% that if they were far apart, when I saw HP I'd still come out thinking it was too long winded and basically a waste of money. It just wasn't exciting at all. The Quiditch (sp?) match was the only part of more than about 3 seconds consecutive 'enjoyment', and that was rubbish and badly done. __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

01-22-2002, 10:29 PM	#11
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	I loved the Quidditch match! But that's the only part I really remember. HP seems to just sort of . . . fade out of memory. Nothing particularly remarkable about it. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-23-2002, 07:28 AM	#12
Atisha Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bad Lippspringe, Germany Posts: 10	Yesss! The Lord rules!!!! No doubt about that! When I went to see FOTR, they showed this new SW-Trailer, and the reaction of the audience (me included) was spontaneous: everybody was cheering and yelling in favour of LOTR rather than wanting to see the trailer! I mean 300 people agree on not liking Star Wars... __________________ I'm not Irish; kiss me, anyway!

01-23-2002, 09:45 AM	#13
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	Atisha - love your sig kiss As for HP, there's apparently a series of excellent children's books out by a guy called Philip Pullman. The trilogy is called His Dark Materials or summat. The last book has just won book of the year (uncluding all adults books, IE winner over everything) over here. I'll probably read that. From it's description it's everything HP simply isn't. Entertaining, well written, worthwhile for adults, and simply put - great. __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

01-24-2002, 02:04 AM	#14
FrodoFriend Halfwitted Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Eryn Vorn Posts: 1,659	Oooh, yes, read them!!! His Dark Material is amazing!!! I was bawling like a baby at the end of the third book (The Amber Spyglass)!!! Philip Pullman has a wonderful talent for vivid writing and especially emotional scenes. His characters are so real and very original. __________________ Fingolfin lives! ... in my finger! The Crossroads of Arda - Warning. Halfwit content. Not appropriate for people with IQ of over 18. The Fellowship of the Message Board Nyáréonié - The Tale of Tears

01-24-2002, 05:32 AM	#15
Atisha Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bad Lippspringe, Germany Posts: 10	Oooooh, Gerbil, you naughty rodent, you... faint __________________ I'm not Irish; kiss me, anyway!

01-24-2002, 08:26 AM	#16
Gerbil Elf Lord Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: London, UK Posts: 797	Was my breath really bad enough to make you faint? Sorry They don't make toothbrushes in my size... __________________ Gerbil gerbil@theburrow.co.uk

01-24-2002, 11:04 AM	#17
Atisha Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Bad Lippspringe, Germany Posts: 10	I guess it was just your sheer rodentness that swept me away... Let me say that I totally agree with you on SW. Episode I really was somewhat offputting... __________________ I'm not Irish; kiss me, anyway!

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