History, a your opinion topic. - Page 2

Aeryn · 10-21-2002, 09:12 PM

Darwin dicovered sciences 'india'.

Well, I believe that Catholisism is the wrongest form of Christianity. I mean, they say they follow the Bible (most), and yet don't follow the 10 commandments.
I have found in (my short life) that most catholics go to church because there parents did.
It's idolatry. Mary wasn't the mother of God, She had to **** the same as we all do.

webwizard333 · 10-21-2002, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Well, I believe that Catholisism is the wrongest form of Christianity. I mean, they say they follow the Bible (most), and yet don't follow the 10 commandments. I have found in (my short life) that most catholics go to church because there parents did.
It's idolatry. Mary wasn't the mother of God, She had to **** the same as we all do.

Thank you for that sweeping, dismissive statement about my faith. To clarify some points, I don't believe any branches of Christianity fully follow the Bible; we all follow Christ. In fact, our central scriptures, the New Testament, are largely dismissive of much of the Hebrew Scripture's teachings. Yes, some of them do pertain to our lives, but the key is instead is to imitate Christ's life and act constructively on his teachings. Also, about Catholics going ot Church I agree, but it's largely because of a misrepresntation and misuse of how Church services should be done. Btw, thanks for for the crack about Mary, very nice. This is all I'm going to say about the Church in this thread as it is a history thread.

Aeryn · 10-21-2002, 09:37 PM

Didn't mean to insult you, but that's how I feel about it, also what I have abserved.

markedel · 10-21-2002, 11:00 PM

Tolkien would be offended

But seriously such discussions when they don't degenerate are interesting-but they should start fresh, in fact there is probably a dormant one around. I'm always up for religious argument. A Jewish thing I guess

Lief Erikson · 10-22-2002, 01:57 AM

You know what, Aeryn, I think that this is much more of a philosophical/religious question then a history one. Not that I'm not perfectly willing to speak my own views on those things, or enter into such a debate, but this might be the wrong topic for it.

Anyway, I think that Darwin wasn't a fool. I don't know much about him, but he strikes me as a man trying to find the truth. Whether he found it or not is a matter of science, mathematics and faith. I personally don't think that man came from apes, but there's little basis for that except that I simply don't think God would do it that way.

Catholicism probably can be a difficult branch of Christianity for some people, particularly among the youth. I know however that all of these branches, Protestant, Catholic, Anglican, etc. all believe in the same God. We all probably make some mistakes, but God doesn't demand that with our own small minds we think up all the truth about the Bible and get it all right. He is more forgiving than that. All Christians who have a relationship with God, regardless of what branch of Christianity they belong to, is part of the one body.

Evolution being taught in schools . . . That's a difficult question, and I don't know what the answer to it is. It's good for Christians and people of other faiths to be aware of what science says, I suppose, so I don't really know whether I approve or not. I'm prepared to have my mind made up for me if some of you can come up with convincing enough arguments either for or against.

***IronParrot*** · 10-22-2002, 02:11 AM

It's important not to confuse Catholicism (and those who subscribe to it) with the Catholic Church as an institution.

The Catholic Church - the institution, not the faith - has been shown throughout the duration of its existence to be corrupt, politically heavy-handed and almost blasphemously hypocritical. It is arguable that it is virtually a cult by definition, due to its emphasis on dedication to the Church practically above dedication to the faith itself. Heck, that's why Luther's Reformation came about in the first place, the way I understand it.

That's not to say that all Catholics are inherently un-Christian. Not even close. That would be like saying all Germans are Nazis. It's just... plain... wrong.

Cool with that?

Lief Erikson · 10-22-2002, 11:45 AM

That's possible, I suppose. I'd appreciate hearing some evidence or factual information about that, though. I hardly know anything about the Catholic Church as an institution. But unfortunately, it's most probably not only them. Christians in America and other places are frequently doing a bad job at being witnesses to the world of their faith. The divorce rates in America among Christians is horrible, and 'we' seem ready to change our views on anything. The church my Mom plays the organ doesn't mind what gays do, and it's really sickening. When I went to church last I heard an estimate that 90% of Christianity is dead hulk, and only 10% are the living, active body of Christ. It's very painful, and I long for a change.

Well, I may seem to be publicly shooting down Christianity here, but simply because a large part of Christianity twist God's words to suit their own purposes doesn't condemn the religion. I am a Christian myself, and I talk to God almost every morning, so I know. It is a matter of faith, and stepping out on faith for something like Christianity and the Church isn't something that non-christians very easily do. But you aren't stepping out for those; you are stepping out to find out if God exists, and wants to speak to you and love you.

Anyway . . . another history question, please

.

sun-star · 10-22-2002, 04:00 PM

Well, it isn't a history debate question, but I'd be interested in finding out some information, if no one minds

. Some of you are American, I see, and I was just wondering, what European history is normally taught in American schools? The stereotype is that 'Americans don't know anything about history other than their own' which I'm sure is neither true nor fair (I couldn't give a lucid account of the American Revolution, to my shame). Anyway, could someone generalise and give me a few examples? Thank you

Since I mentioned stereotypes - well, I'll resist the urge to defend Catholicism. I'm a Catholic and I've heard all this 'idolatry' stuff many times before. Also the whole 'Catholics are not real Christians' thing. Took a lot of convincing of my Christian friends of other denominations that I wasn't a devil worshipper in their midst

Lief Erikson · 10-22-2002, 04:54 PM

Well, I'm afraid that even though I'm an American, I can't give you a general perspective. I'm homeschooled, so I don't know what is taught in the public school.

Our own family is very interested in history. My Dad has at least 50 books on different time periods. France, England, the Middle East. I read a book on Ancient Japan recently, and while I was younger I read especially about Europe.

Lately we've been concentrating especially on Ancient Egypt and the kingdoms of the Assyrians, Sumarians, and others around the time periods of The Old and New Kingdoms of Egypt.

However, I know there are plenty of people in America who are utterly bored with history, and some people in Europe too. Different people have different interests, wherever in the world they live. I don't know what the statistics in America are.

Lief Erikson · 10-22-2002, 04:56 PM

Well, I'm afraid that even though I'm an American, I can't give you a general perspective. I'm homeschooled, so I don't know what is taught in the public school.

Our own family is very interested in history. My Dad has at least 50 books on different time periods. France, England, the Middle East. I read a book on Ancient Japan recently, and while I was younger I read especially about Europe.

Lately we've been concentrating especially on Ancient Egypt and the kingdoms of the Assyrians, Sumarians, and others around the time periods of The Old and New Kingdoms of Egypt.

However, I know there are plenty of people in America who are utterly bored with history, and some people in Europe too. Different people have different interests, wherever in the world they live. I don't know what the statistics in America are.

You know what, I don't think that there's any need to defend Catholicism. It's not the faith that is being attacked so much as the church structure, and I think it's pretty plain that we all make mistakes. If you want to defend the faith though, you can go ahead.

katya · 10-22-2002, 05:38 PM

First of all, I don't feel like defending the Catholic church. Maybe later. I am a Catholic myself, but I think of the Catholic church like I think of America. I like America, and I don't mind living in it. There are a lot of good things about America. But I don't like the government, or what it does. I hope that is clear.

Second, on European history in America:
I haven't taken world history in high school yet, but so far, we have had some in Middle School. Mostly what we did (now keep in mind that htis is not the greatest teacher ever) was studied (right out of the book) individual countries, a small bit of their history and government, and a lot about their crops, industries, imports/exports, etc. There is a taste of the culture too but not so much as the other things. With wars and things, I haven't really gotten into that so much yet (except American wars). I admit that I don't know nearly as much European history as I would like. I know very little except what I have learned on my own.

Aeryn · 10-22-2002, 06:29 PM

Well, I have no professed faith, nor do I know of any specific god.
I was homeschooled in ACE as a 4th and 5th grader. Went to public school. Got kicked out my 7th year. Now I am in St. Augustines school. A catholic run institution, not live-in thank all things. It's for I suppose the 'uncooperative' youths *shrug* anyway, When I was in ACE we did Entire World History, the creation to present times. I learned of every country, probably not as in-depth as High School is but still I learned of it. The founding of the Catholic church. I do not attend the religious classes at my school, for the simple fact I have no religion and it isn't mandatory. I HAVE in fact sat in like 3 lessons when I first came here...well it was a load of dung as far as I was concerned.
The topic of religion is interesting, I study religions on my free time. Buddhism is one of the most comical. but anyway, I am down rambling so.
TTFN!

mirial · 10-24-2002, 08:01 PM

YEAH, I have a history question and/or discussion topic.
Nero, Titas althoughs guys...didn't they just have the neatest torture devices? I'm not saying that I would want that to happen to anyone, but I get this twisted sort of excitement out of reading about it, like the Holocaust...It's like watching NASCAR and enjoying the wrecks (You have to admit, they are interesting to watch, as long as no one dies). Nero, he tied people in trees, smothered them in tar, and burned them in parties. Titas (or whatever the heck his anme is), let people starve themselves...\

No point to this really.

Treebeard's apprentice · 10-25-2002, 12:35 PM

About European history in American schools:

Most Americans (hopefully) have a general knowledge of European history. The classes usually go into a good amount of detail, but most students don't care. The teachers just make sure you get the main points and the Big Picture (Greeks & Romans, Middle Ages, Crusades, Renaissance, Industrial Revolution, escalation of WWI & WWII, etc).

sun-star · 10-25-2002, 01:30 PM

Thanks everyone for answering my question

Quote:

most students don't care.

I'm sure that's the same all over the world

Aeryn · 10-25-2002, 04:06 PM

Students DO care, I care, History, especially about other countries, is interesting. Fascinating even. I watch the Histroy channel for fun people!!!!!!!!
And most teachers give VERY detailed tests, (what day was George the third put on the throne? kinda stuff)

Lief Erikson · 10-25-2002, 04:41 PM

Well, I've bumped into a bunch of kids who don't care one way or the other about history, simply saying it's boring. I personally agree with you, Aeryn, in finding it fascinating. We are the intellectual minority.

mirial · 10-25-2002, 09:17 PM

No one likes to talk about people covered in tar, burning in trees? Isn't this the Sadist's and Masochist's forum?

Lief Erikson · 10-25-2002, 11:09 PM

Make a torture thread if you want to talk about torture or horendous death.

Dussander · 10-25-2002, 11:16 PM

I like Torture....

10-21-2002, 09:12 PM	#21
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	Darwin dicovered sciences 'india'. Well, I believe that Catholisism is the wrongest form of Christianity. I mean, they say they follow the Bible (most), and yet don't follow the 10 commandments. I have found in (my short life) that most catholics go to church because there parents did. It's idolatry. Mary wasn't the mother of God, She had to **** the same as we all do. __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

10-21-2002, 09:37 PM	#23
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	Didn't mean to insult you, but that's how I feel about it, also what I have abserved. __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

10-21-2002, 11:00 PM	#24
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Tolkien would be offended But seriously such discussions when they don't degenerate are interesting-but they should start fresh, in fact there is probably a dormant one around. I'm always up for religious argument. A Jewish thing I guess __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

10-22-2002, 02:11 AM	#26
*IronParrot* Fowl Administrator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Calgary or Edmonton, Canada Posts: 53,420	It's important not to confuse Catholicism (and those who subscribe to it) with the Catholic Church as an institution. The Catholic Church - the institution, not the faith - has been shown throughout the duration of its existence to be corrupt, politically heavy-handed and almost blasphemously hypocritical. It is arguable that it is virtually a cult by definition, due to its emphasis on dedication to the Church practically above dedication to the faith itself. Heck, that's why Luther's Reformation came about in the first place, the way I understand it. That's not to say that all Catholics are inherently un-Christian. Not even close. That would be like saying all Germans are Nazis. It's just... plain... wrong. Cool with that? __________________ All of IronParrot's posts are guaranteed to be 100% intelligent and/or sarcastic, comprising no genetically modified content and tested on no cute furry little animals unless the SPCA is looking elsewhere. If you observe a failure to uphold this warranty, please contact a forum administrator immediately to receive a full refund on your Entmoot registration. Blog: Nick's Café Canadien

10-22-2002, 11:45 AM	#27
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	That's possible, I suppose. I'd appreciate hearing some evidence or factual information about that, though. I hardly know anything about the Catholic Church as an institution. But unfortunately, it's most probably not only them. Christians in America and other places are frequently doing a bad job at being witnesses to the world of their faith. The divorce rates in America among Christians is horrible, and 'we' seem ready to change our views on anything. The church my Mom plays the organ doesn't mind what gays do, and it's really sickening. When I went to church last I heard an estimate that 90% of Christianity is dead hulk, and only 10% are the living, active body of Christ. It's very painful, and I long for a change. Well, I may seem to be publicly shooting down Christianity here, but simply because a large part of Christianity twist God's words to suit their own purposes doesn't condemn the religion. I am a Christian myself, and I talk to God almost every morning, so I know. It is a matter of faith, and stepping out on faith for something like Christianity and the Church isn't something that non-christians very easily do. But you aren't stepping out for those; you are stepping out to find out if God exists, and wants to speak to you and love you. Anyway . . . another history question, please . Last edited by Lief Erikson : 10-22-2002 at 04:48 PM.

10-22-2002, 01:57 AM	#25
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	You know what, Aeryn, I think that this is much more of a philosophical/religious question then a history one. Not that I'm not perfectly willing to speak my own views on those things, or enter into such a debate, but this might be the wrong topic for it. Anyway, I think that Darwin wasn't a fool. I don't know much about him, but he strikes me as a man trying to find the truth. Whether he found it or not is a matter of science, mathematics and faith. I personally don't think that man came from apes, but there's little basis for that except that I simply don't think God would do it that way. Catholicism probably can be a difficult branch of Christianity for some people, particularly among the youth. I know however that all of these branches, Protestant, Catholic, Anglican, etc. all believe in the same God. We all probably make some mistakes, but God doesn't demand that with our own small minds we think up all the truth about the Bible and get it all right. He is more forgiving than that. All Christians who have a relationship with God, regardless of what branch of Christianity they belong to, is part of the one body. Evolution being taught in schools . . . That's a difficult question, and I don't know what the answer to it is. It's good for Christians and people of other faiths to be aware of what science says, I suppose, so I don't really know whether I approve or not. I'm prepared to have my mind made up for me if some of you can come up with convincing enough arguments either for or against.

10-22-2002, 04:00 PM	#28
sun-star Lady of Letters Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Either Oxford or Kent, England Posts: 2,476	Well, it isn't a history debate question, but I'd be interested in finding out some information, if no one minds . Some of you are American, I see, and I was just wondering, what European history is normally taught in American schools? The stereotype is that 'Americans don't know anything about history other than their own' which I'm sure is neither true nor fair (I couldn't give a lucid account of the American Revolution, to my shame). Anyway, could someone generalise and give me a few examples? Thank you Since I mentioned stereotypes - well, I'll resist the urge to defend Catholicism. I'm a Catholic and I've heard all this 'idolatry' stuff many times before. Also the whole 'Catholics are not real Christians' thing. Took a lot of convincing of my Christian friends of other denominations that I wasn't a devil worshipper in their midst __________________ And all the time the waves, the waves, the waves Chase, intersect and flatten on the sand As they have done for centuries, as they will For centuries to come, when not a soul Is left to picnic on the blazing rocks, When England is not England, when mankind Has blown himself to pieces. Still the sea, Consolingly disastrous, will return While the strange starfish, hugely magnified, Waits in the jewelled basin of a pool.

10-22-2002, 04:54 PM	#29
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Well, I'm afraid that even though I'm an American, I can't give you a general perspective. I'm homeschooled, so I don't know what is taught in the public school. Our own family is very interested in history. My Dad has at least 50 books on different time periods. France, England, the Middle East. I read a book on Ancient Japan recently, and while I was younger I read especially about Europe. Lately we've been concentrating especially on Ancient Egypt and the kingdoms of the Assyrians, Sumarians, and others around the time periods of The Old and New Kingdoms of Egypt. However, I know there are plenty of people in America who are utterly bored with history, and some people in Europe too. Different people have different interests, wherever in the world they live. I don't know what the statistics in America are.

10-22-2002, 04:56 PM	#30
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Well, I'm afraid that even though I'm an American, I can't give you a general perspective. I'm homeschooled, so I don't know what is taught in the public school. Our own family is very interested in history. My Dad has at least 50 books on different time periods. France, England, the Middle East. I read a book on Ancient Japan recently, and while I was younger I read especially about Europe. Lately we've been concentrating especially on Ancient Egypt and the kingdoms of the Assyrians, Sumarians, and others around the time periods of The Old and New Kingdoms of Egypt. However, I know there are plenty of people in America who are utterly bored with history, and some people in Europe too. Different people have different interests, wherever in the world they live. I don't know what the statistics in America are. You know what, I don't think that there's any need to defend Catholicism. It's not the faith that is being attacked so much as the church structure, and I think it's pretty plain that we all make mistakes. If you want to defend the faith though, you can go ahead.

10-22-2002, 05:38 PM	#31
katya Elven Maiden Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 3,309	First of all, I don't feel like defending the Catholic church. Maybe later. I am a Catholic myself, but I think of the Catholic church like I think of America. I like America, and I don't mind living in it. There are a lot of good things about America. But I don't like the government, or what it does. I hope that is clear. Second, on European history in America: I haven't taken world history in high school yet, but so far, we have had some in Middle School. Mostly what we did (now keep in mind that htis is not the greatest teacher ever) was studied (right out of the book) individual countries, a small bit of their history and government, and a lot about their crops, industries, imports/exports, etc. There is a taste of the culture too but not so much as the other things. With wars and things, I haven't really gotten into that so much yet (except American wars). I admit that I don't know nearly as much European history as I would like. I know very little except what I have learned on my own.

10-22-2002, 06:29 PM	#32
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	Well, I have no professed faith, nor do I know of any specific god. I was homeschooled in ACE as a 4th and 5th grader. Went to public school. Got kicked out my 7th year. Now I am in St. Augustines school. A catholic run institution, not live-in thank all things. It's for I suppose the 'uncooperative' youths shrug anyway, When I was in ACE we did Entire World History, the creation to present times. I learned of every country, probably not as in-depth as High School is but still I learned of it. The founding of the Catholic church. I do not attend the religious classes at my school, for the simple fact I have no religion and it isn't mandatory. I HAVE in fact sat in like 3 lessons when I first came here...well it was a load of dung as far as I was concerned. The topic of religion is interesting, I study religions on my free time. Buddhism is one of the most comical. but anyway, I am down rambling so. TTFN! __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

10-24-2002, 08:01 PM	#33
mirial Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: only in your dreams...or nightmares :) Posts: 93	YEAH, I have a history question and/or discussion topic. Nero, Titas althoughs guys...didn't they just have the neatest torture devices? I'm not saying that I would want that to happen to anyone, but I get this twisted sort of excitement out of reading about it, like the Holocaust...It's like watching NASCAR and enjoying the wrecks (You have to admit, they are interesting to watch, as long as no one dies). Nero, he tied people in trees, smothered them in tar, and burned them in parties. Titas (or whatever the heck his anme is), let people starve themselves...\ No point to this really. __________________ Suogan (Or See-o-gon) Translation. (some of it) Sleep, my baby, on my bosom, Warm and cozy, it will prove, Round thee mother’s arms are folding, In her heart a mother’s love. There shall no one come to harm thee, Naught shall ever break thy rest; Sleep, my darling babe, in quiet, Sleep on mother’s gentle breast. Sleep serenely, baby, slumber, Lovely baby, gently sleep; Tell me wherefore art thou smiling, Smiling sweetly in thy sleep? Do the angels smile in heaven When thy happy smile they see? Dost thou on them smile while slumb’ring On my bosom peacefully.

10-25-2002, 12:35 PM	#34
Treebeard's apprentice Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Wherever I may roam Posts: 207	About European history in American schools: Most Americans (hopefully) have a general knowledge of European history. The classes usually go into a good amount of detail, but most students don't care. The teachers just make sure you get the main points and the Big Picture (Greeks & Romans, Middle Ages, Crusades, Renaissance, Industrial Revolution, escalation of WWI & WWII, etc).

10-25-2002, 04:06 PM	#36
Aeryn Bank'ress of Sith Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In a hot-hot place, heh Posts: 913	Students DO care, I care, History, especially about other countries, is interesting. Fascinating even. I watch the Histroy channel for fun people!!!!!!!! And most teachers give VERY detailed tests, (what day was George the third put on the throne? kinda stuff) __________________ my new account name feigndeath. This one is deactivated, I think.

10-25-2002, 04:41 PM	#37
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Well, I've bumped into a bunch of kids who don't care one way or the other about history, simply saying it's boring. I personally agree with you, Aeryn, in finding it fascinating. We are the intellectual minority.

10-25-2002, 09:17 PM	#38
mirial Enting Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: only in your dreams...or nightmares :) Posts: 93	No one likes to talk about people covered in tar, burning in trees? Isn't this the Sadist's and Masochist's forum? __________________ Suogan (Or See-o-gon) Translation. (some of it) Sleep, my baby, on my bosom, Warm and cozy, it will prove, Round thee mother’s arms are folding, In her heart a mother’s love. There shall no one come to harm thee, Naught shall ever break thy rest; Sleep, my darling babe, in quiet, Sleep on mother’s gentle breast. Sleep serenely, baby, slumber, Lovely baby, gently sleep; Tell me wherefore art thou smiling, Smiling sweetly in thy sleep? Do the angels smile in heaven When thy happy smile they see? Dost thou on them smile while slumb’ring On my bosom peacefully.

10-25-2002, 11:09 PM	#39
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	Make a torture thread if you want to talk about torture or horendous death.

10-25-2002, 11:16 PM	#40
Dussander Enting Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 96	I like Torture....

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