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Old 08-29-2004, 04:49 AM   #1
Artanis
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Character analysis: Eöl, Maeglin

Short outline of the story of Eöl and Maeglin:
In the published Silmarillion, Eöl is said to have been "of the kin of Thingol", "a tall Elf of a high kin of the Teleri, noble though grim of face; and his eyes could see deep into shadows and dark places." But he did not feel comfortable i Doriath, and when the Girdle was set around the forest he left eastward to dwell in Nan Elmoth. Here he caught sight of Aredhel on one of her wanderings out of Celegorm's realm, and he used his powers of enchantment to make her come to his house and took her to wife more or less by force. Still, Aredhel seemed to be content for many years, and she and Eöl has a son, Maeglin.

Aredhel and Maeglin fled from Nan Elmoth during one of Eöl's journeys abroad, and they headed for Gondolin, where they were both received with honour by Turgon. Eöl followed them, having a brief but unpleasant encounter with Curufin, kinsman and old friend of Aredhel, on his way. At his arrival in Gondolin in front of Turgon's seat he bids Maeglin to return with him to Nan Elmoth, but the king forbids it. Then Eöl, being full of hatred against the Noldor and unwilling to see his son among them, makes an attempt to kill Maeglin, casting a poisoned javelin to him, but ends up killing his wife instead. For this deed he is sentenced to death and executed.

Maeglin becomes great among the Noldor in Gondolin, but he is not content. He desires Idril, but she avoids him. Then Tuor comes as a rival both for the heart of Idril and the King's favour, Idril weds Tuor and they have a son, and Maeglin's hate towards Tuor and his son Eärendil grows deep. Thus, when Maeglin later is captured by Orcs and brought to Angband he is led to treachery, being promised the lordship of Gondolin and the hand of Idril if he would reveal to Morgoth the exact whereabouts of Gondolin and how it could best be assailed.

During the following sack of Gondolin Maeglin attempted to kill Eärendil, trying to cast him onto the flames beneath the city walls, but was hindered by Tuor. Tuor and Maeglin fought on the walls, and Tuor cast Maeglin far out, and so he died in the same way as his father.

Eöl's name and origin
Eöl is called the Dark Elf, but though it is said in the published Sil that he preferred the shadows and the darkness of the deep woods, I don't think this is a sufficient reason for the name. However, in later versions of the Sil Eöl was not from Doriath but an Avari, one of the Elves to refused the march west, but entered Beleriand long after. This serves also to explain the lack of meaning of the name Eöl in both Quenya and Sindarin. At one point Tolkien pondered about making Eöl a former captive of Angband, thus explaining his dark mood and his skills in the smithies, which he was supposed to have learned from Morgoth. This idea was abandoned, and Eöl returned to being learned in smithcraft from the Dwarves.

Maeglin's name
Maeglin means 'Sharp Glance', derived from mik (=pierce), maika (=sharp, penetrating, going deep in) and glim (=gleam, glint, particularly applied to light of eyes). It is said that "Maeglin had, even more than his father, very bright eyes, and was both physically very keen-sighted and mentally very penetrant, and quick to interpret the looks and gestures of people, and perceive their thoughts and purposes." Another explanation of the name Maeglin is that Eöl named his son after the metal that he devised, because the metal was "dark, supple, and yet strong, and even so was his son". Eöl did not give his son a name before he was 12, until then he was called only 'Iôn' (=son), but Aredhel in secret named him Lómion (=son of Twilight, in Quenya).

In other versions of the Sil, Maeglin is called Meglin, or Glindûr.

Sources:
The published Silmarillion
HoME 11 - Maeglin
HoME 11 - Quendi and Eldar
HoME 11 - The Grey Annals
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Last edited by Artanis : 08-29-2004 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 08-29-2004, 04:52 AM   #2
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Discussion about Eöl:
Was he just a bad, evil villain, or did he have some good sides?
Did he love Aredhel?
Did he love Maeglin his son?
Why did he come to shun the light of day?
What do you think about his grudge against the Noldor? Can you sympathise with it?
Do you feel sorry for him?

Discussion about Maeglin:
Was he just a bad, evil villain, or did he have some good sides?
Did he love his father?
Did he love Idril, or was she just a way to gain more power in Gondolin?
He had the power in his voice to move those who heard him, and overthrow those who withstood him. In what way did he use this power?
Why is it that no one, except Idril, perceived his dark mood and his secret hatred?
Is there any excuse for his treachery?
Is there any excuse for his attack on Idril and Eärendel?
Do you feel sorry for him?



At last I'd like to put in here a few lines from "The Lay of the Fall of Gondolin":
Quote:
Meglin she sent to Gondolin, and his honour there was high
as the latest seed of Fingolfin, whose glory shall not die;
a lordship he won of the Gnome-folk who quarry deep in the earth,
seeking their ancient jewels; but little was his mirth,
and dark he was and secret and his hair as the strands of night
that are tangled in Taur Fuin* the forest without light.
And now the stage is yours, folks.
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Last edited by Artanis : 08-29-2004 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 08-29-2004, 05:34 AM   #3
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Wow! Great intro, Arty! Thanks for taking the effort.
Some thoughts:
Discussion about Eöl
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artanis
Was he just a bad, evil villain, or did he have some good sides?
I'd say he was a villain, I can't see any good sides to his personality. I think Tolkien intended to show that by all the evil that Eöl caused. He killed Aredhel, and one of the two swords he forged became the Black Sword in Turin's hand, and we all know what THAT did Then again, we don't know that much about Eöl's personality, do we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artanis
Did he love Aredhel?
I think he did. He was too lonely in that forest of his and surely an Noldorin woman who has seen the Light of the Trees would be ravishing enough to turn any pooer Elf's head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artanis
Did he love Maeglin his son?
I don't think he loved him as in father to son love. He probably saw in Maeglin a perpetuation of his own name and probably someone who would go on to have great power. Perhaps that's why he wanted him out of Gondolin; for whatever reason he hated the Noldor, he didn't want his son influenced by them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artanis
What do you think about his grudge against the Noldor? Can you sympathise with it?
I can certainly sympathise with anyone who harbors a grudge against the Noldor. Put yourself in the Avari and the Sindar's position. These pesky Noldor come from the sea to invade the lands that don't belong to them anymore and they claim it's their right and place themselves higher than any Elf in ME (the snobs!). However, I can't think of a reason why Eöl decided to express his grudge so openly and bitterly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artanis
Do you feel sorry for him?
Yes I certainly feel sorry for him. He shut himself out refusing to listen to reason and refusing to 'see the light'. His redemption was so close at hand but he kept rejecting it. Some people would condemn him for a blind, stubborn mule. Not so for me, I feel really sorry for the poor guy!

I'll post my thoughts about Maeglin later, this is all I can manage for now.
Again: great job, Arty!
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Old 08-29-2004, 05:40 AM   #4
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I don't think Eol can be considered to be entirely evil. I think he fell in love with his wife, and even though he didn't exactly capture her through any fair means, she stayed willingly enough with him.
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Old 08-29-2004, 07:13 AM   #5
Telcontar_Dunedain
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I never really considered Maeglin evil until Hurin and Huor's departure from Gondolin.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"

The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230
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Old 08-29-2004, 07:18 AM   #6
Radagast The Brown
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Quote:
I don't think he loved him as in father to son love. He probably saw in Maeglin a perpetuation of his own name and probably someone who would go on to have great power. Perhaps that's why he wanted him out of Gondolin; for whatever reason he hated the Noldor, he didn't want his son influenced by them.
I disagree here... I think he loved his son much, and that's why he left Nan Elmoth. He loved him, but didn't want to let him go and do whatever he wanted - he wanted him to stay in the woods.

I agree that he was a villain, and loved Aredhel. I can understand his hate to the Noldor.. but don't that I myself would hate them.
And I don't feel sorry for him. I think he's the character I hate more than all others.

About Maeglin - it is said he was like his father in the mood... but I think he was a bit different. He had good sides - many, even - but he fell to darkness when Tuor came, and he was jelous of his power and love of Idril. Without that, he wouldn't have discovered the location of Gondolin. That's no excuse... but it's like a different person from the moment Tuor came. I do feel sorry for him though. Don't know why.
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Old 08-29-2004, 07:27 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown
He had good sides - many, even -
Care to share them with us?
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Old 08-29-2004, 07:39 AM   #8
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I agree that Aredhel loved Eol but I do not think he had many good sides.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"

The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:05 AM   #9
Radagast The Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beren3000
Care to share them with us?
Well, when I think of it you can't really know his acts in the time in Gondolin. I think he was just a royalty, that helped Gondolin protect itself (making weapons, for example). I'm not very good at getting the cahacarters out of the writing, actually, abd haven't read that part for awhile. But can you say what he did wrong in that time? (befroe Huor and hurin arrived to Gondolin)
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:07 AM   #10
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But he betrayed Gondolin to Morgoth. Why does someone with many good sides do that.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"

The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:15 AM   #11
Radagast The Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain
But he betrayed Gondolin to Morgoth. Why does someone with many good sides do that.
Becuase he has bad sides of course. Which overcome the good in the end. That's my opinion anyway.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:16 AM   #12
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I thought he was good before he came to Gondolin but I think that the coming of Hurin and Huor and Idril rejecting him just made him flip.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"

The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:18 AM   #13
Radagast The Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain
I thought he was good before he came to Gondolin but I think that the coming of Hurin and Huor and Idril rejecting him just made him flip.
Exactly. That's why he's not just bad - He has good sides.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:20 AM   #14
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So in some ways he was like men because his bad sides were overcome by evil.

And everyone has good sides but IMO what defines good from bad is which side triumphs.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"

The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:27 AM   #15
Radagast The Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain
So in some ways he was like men because his bad sides were overcome by evil.

And everyone has good sides but IMO what defines good from bad is which side triumphs.
Indeed. But if you saw the question: 'Was he just a bad, evil villain, or did he have some good sides?'... I was just answering.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:31 AM   #16
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But if people are only considered evil if they have no good sides then no one (bar perhaps Morgoth and Sauron) were evil.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"

The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain
But if people are only considered evil if they have no good sides then no one (bar perhaps Morgoth and Sauron) were evil.
Not quite. Balrogs, orcs, dragons are all evil... you can't consider, though, the Haradrim, for example, as evil, as they do have good sides. They're somehow corrupted, but afterall they're just men.
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:35 AM   #18
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Yet orcs were originally elves, but I agree with you on Balrogs and Dragons.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"

The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230
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Old 08-29-2004, 08:39 AM   #19
Radagast The Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain
Yet orcs were originally elves, but I agree with you on Balrogs and Dragons.
Does it matter? They're evil. Do you want to open a thread, that defines 'evil' in lotR? Becuase we're way OT right now.
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Old 08-29-2004, 09:22 AM   #20
Telcontar_Dunedain
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Back on the subject I still think that Eol and Maeglin were evil.
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Then Huor spoke and said: "Yet if it stands but a little while, then out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men. This I say to you, lord, with the eyes of death: though we part here for ever, and I shall not look on your white walls again, from you and me a new star shall arise. Farewell!"

The Silmarillion, Nirnaeth Arnoediad, Page 230
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