Character analysis: Fëanor, Fingolfin.

[Beren3000]

I'll model this thread after Val's Isildur, Anarion and Elendil one.
The three steps for discussion in this thread are as follows:

1. Intro to the characters
2.Comparison between them
3.Speculation and controversy (my favorite part )

I'll start with the intro

[Beren3000]

Fëanor
Most talented of the Noldor. His name means "spirit of fire", it was given to him by his mother. His father, Finwë gave him the name Curufinwë. He created the three Silmarils, fabulous jewels containing within them the light of the Two Trees of Valinor. The secret of the making of the Silmarils went with Fëanor to his grave. The Silmarils caused tension and strife among the Noldor; the most famous incident being Fëanor raising a sword to his kinsman, Fingolfin for the latter's trying to touch the Silmarils (IIRC). Once Melkor stole the Silmarils, Fëanor was blind with rage and named his enemy anew as Morgoth: the black enemy of the world. Having refused the Silmarils to the Valar already, he could not enlist their help, so he swore a terrible, blasphemous oath binding him and his sons to the fate of the Silmarils. After that, all of Fëanor's house were exiled from Valinor. A mysterious figure (most probably Mandos) meets them on the shores of Valinor. This figure utters the famous prophecy known as The Doom of Mandos or The Curse of the Noldor. Ignoring this completely, Fëanor goes on to Alqualondë asking for ships. Refused the ships, he and his people massacre the Eldar of Alqualondë and take the ships. Once they disembark at Middle-Earth, Fëanor orders the burning of the ships. This was done in order to prevent Fingolfin's house (which was also exiled for their belief in Fëanor's oath) from crossing the sea. Once in Middle-Earth, Fëanor wages a terrible war on Morgoth but dies in the first battle at the hands of Gothmog, lord of all Balrogs. It is said that when his spirit left his body, his whole body turned to ash.


Fingolfin
Kinsman of Fëanor. Fingolfin often argued with Fëanor about the latter's ill-temper and his covetousness of the Silmarils. After Fëanor swore his oath, urging all the Eldar to follow him, Fingolfin refused. His sons, however, believed in Fëanor and chose to accompany him. Seeing this, Fingolfin preferred to follow his sons rather than stay in Valinor mourning them. After Fëanor burned the ships, Fingolfin was forced to lead his people to the Helcaraxë, the path of grinding ice that linked Valinor to Middle-Earth. The harsh conditions of that crossing caused many of Fingolfin's people to die, including his own wife. After Fëanor's death, Fingolfin was established as the high king of the Noldor. He went to challenge Morgoth in a one-to-one duel. He managed to wound Morgoth's legs but was slain and Fingon his son established as high king in his place.

[Valandil]

Moving to Silmarillion forum.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Feanor appears predominatly motivated by hubris that anythings else, even to the exclusion of fatherly love, when seemly the hopelessness of the war against Morgoth, he reinforces the oath of his sons to fight it.

[Beren3000]

Yeah, that's the main "big point" of discussion I was planning to bring up. Thanks for doing so, Lefty Scaevola (do you mind if I ask what Scaevola means?)

Here's the question: how do you people judge Fëanor? Is he a villain who, "moved by hubris", blasphemed Eru and the Valar and caused so much misery and pain? Or is he a hero whose courage allowed him to stand up to the mighty Valar themselves? I think LS made his point of view clear already.

Myself, I agree with the first choice. I totally condemn Fëanor.
Will elaborate later

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

Is he a villain who, "moved by hubris", blasphemed Eru and the Valar and caused so much misery and pain? Or is he a hero whose courage allowed him to stand up to the mighty Valar themselves?

Both, the Valar needed a good kicking at that point, and Feanor was the height of elequence and rhetoric when he moved the Noldor, and then answered Eonwe. But the robbery and murder of the Falmari at Alaquonde is right out, and further condenming his sons, rather than freeing them to make their own choices, after seeing the hopelessness of the cause, makes him a terrible monster, an indicia of pure sociopathy, self centerdness, valuing nothing but his own pride, desires, and impulses. But even sociopaths get some things right, even for wrong and evil motivations; the Noldor were needed to disapate Morgoths power.

(Scaevola (latin) means left handed, but with a more dignfied conotation than Lefty has.)

[Artanis]

Thanks for starting this thread Beren.

Just want to add a small correction: Fëanor's mothername was Fëanáro, which means 'Spirit of Fire' (fëa=spirit, náro=fire). Sorry for being so picky, but I'm fascinated by Quenya Elven names and would like to get it right.

My view on Fëanor was that he was a great Elf who suffered perhaps most of all in Aman, his mother being the first Elf to die in the blessed realm, and his father being the first to get slain. These facts are often overlooked when Fëanor is discussed. However, he was probably well spoiled by his father, who loved him all to much. He was prideful and loved the work of his hands, and was eager to gain knowledge, a fact which Melkor knew how to turn to his favour. My view on Fëanor mostly follows that of Nerdanel, loving the young Fëanor before the lies of Melkor had begun to work on him, but condemning his later actions (the rebellion, Alqualonde etc.) and the choices he made.

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Artanis

náro=fire

Intersting side note: the Arabic word for fire is "nar"; coincidence?
I will post my thoughts later.

P.S. thank you for explaining your name, LS

[Falagar]

Actually, the Quenya word for fire would be nár, o is the masculin ending.

I'll try to add some thoughts in this thread when I've read through the Silmarillion once more, and since I'm not planning to do that at the moment this thread will probably be buried deep before I can get to it. Ttt.

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Falagar

Actually, the Quenya word for fire would be nár, o is the masculin ending.

Oh thanks for telling me. Even more alike to the Arabic 'nar' then.

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Falagar

I'll try to add some thoughts in this thread when I've read through the Silmarillion once more, and since I'm not planning to do that at the moment this thread will probably be buried deep before I can get to it. Ttt.

Exactly what do you mean by that? *shakes fists in challenge*

Originally Posted by Artanis

He was prideful and loved the work of his hands, and was eager to gain knowledge, a fact which Melkor knew how to turn to his favour.

I strongly agree with that opinion; this concept is typically Christian, and therefore typically Tolkien
I also agree with your opinion condemning the adult Fëanor not the young one.

Now for the compare and contrast part:
Fëanor seems to be the complete antithesis of Fingolfin.
The former is proud and hot-headed, while the latter is modest and complacent. Fingolfin refuses to follow Fëanor's oath. He also refused to raise sword against Fëanor when the latter threatened him. He rather preferred to show his submission to Fëanor in order to avoid bloodshed. And, IIRC, Fingolfin tried to convince Fëanor of yielding the Silmarils to Yavanna.

I have another question to ask; we are told that the Elves go to the halls of Mandos after their death and stay there until their spirits are reincarnated. This account doesn't mention any sort of punishment for the "sinful" or reward for the "pious", so I wonder what Fëanor's fate was when he died. Was he punished in a way we don't know or did Earendil's voyage earn forgiveness for all of the Eldar?

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

Fëanor seems to be the complete antithesis of Fingolfin.

I think they were much alike actually, only that Ñolofinwë according to his name was the wiser of them, and so was able to choose differently from his elder brother. Fëanor was a hot-head for sure, but what is to say about Fingolfin's challenge of Morgoth after the Dagor Bragollach? A hasty and hopeless challenge, as hot-tempered as any imo. Fingolfin and Fëanor were also rivals all the time, both for the right to the kingship and for their father's appreciation and love. Fingolfin claimed to be the chieftain of all the Ñoldor after the death of Finwë, a claim which he had no right to, since Fëanor was the eldest son of Finwë.

Originally Posted by Beren3000

I have another question to ask; we are told that the Elves go to the halls of Mandos after their death and stay there until their spirits are reincarnated. This account doesn't mention any sort of punishment for the "sinful" or reward for the "pious", so I wonder what Fëanor's fate was when he died. Was he punished in a way we don't know or did Earendil's voyage earn forgiveness for all of the Eldar?

It is said that the Halls of Mandos is a place for contemplation and tranquility. So no, I don't think it the sojourn there is meant as a punishment. Nevertheless, the natural state of the fëa (spirit) of an Elf is to be in a union with the rhöa (body), so when an Elf dies, the fëa is suffering badly from the separation of its rhöa. This is why an Elf has a reason to fear death. IIRC, Mandos is the judge who decides how long time it takes before an Elf is allowed to reincarnate, I should think the time involved would depend on the will of the fëa to repent of its deeds. I would imagine that the need for repentance in Fëanor's case would be rather great, and he would perhaps not be so cooperative.

Eärendil earned forgiveness for the exiled Noldor, allowing them to return to the West, and made the Valar come to Middle Earth aiding the people there in their war against Morgoth.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by Artanis

I think they were much alike actually, only that Ñolofinwë according to his name was the wiser of them, and so was able to choose differently from his elder brother. Fëanor was a hot-head for sure, but what is to say about Fingolfin's challenge of Morgoth after the Dagor Bragollach? A hasty and hopeless challenge, as hot-tempered as any imo.

I wouldn't call Fingolfin hot-tempered because the challenge, or at all. Fingolfin was desperate, and he thought he's going to die anyway - whether he challenges Morgoth or not. I'm not sure what he knew, but someone lied to him... andhe thought they were going to lose to Morgoth anyway. I assume he wanted to hurt Morgoth before he dies, because I'm sure he knew he cannot fight Morgoth.

[Beren3000]

Originally Posted by Artanis

but what is to say about Fingolfin's challenge of Morgoth after the Dagor Bragollach? A hasty and hopeless challenge, as hot-tempered as any imo.

He was driven by courage and desperation then. Fëanor was driven by pride and rage, he wanted a vendetta (on a huge scale of course) waged against Morgoth for very personal reasons. On the other hand, Fingolfin challenged Morgoth to a duel in order to maintain the honor and respect of the Noldor and prove that they're not to be subdued easily. I think the distinction is clear between the two actions.

Originally Posted by Artanis

It is said that the Halls of Mandos is a place for contemplation and tranquility. So no, I don't think it the sojourn there is meant as a punishment. Nevertheless, the natural state of the fëa (spirit) of an Elf is to be in a union with the rhöa (body), so when an Elf dies, the fëa is suffering badly from the separation of its rhöa. This is why an Elf has a reason to fear death.

Wow! I've never read that before. Where is it mentioned (not in the Sil., I hope or else I'll have to get an Alzheimer's check )? It does explain a lot, though. So Fëanor's punishment would be that his fëa would never be reincarnated and so suffer eternally; justice is served

RTB, I didn't copy your opinion, we just cross-posted!

[Lefty Scaevola]

The result of the duel, inclduing 8 wounds to Morgoth, show that it was not entirely hopless. If you can woulnd an opponents in so chancey a thing as personal combat, you have some chance to beat him. Remeber that Morgoth was arleady much disapated by the first 455 years of the war of the Jewels, and that he would be toppled about a century later.

[Radagast The Brown]

But isn't he the strongest of the Ainur that came to Ea? How can an elf, even if he was the greatest elf in Arda, can win? (Even if Morgoth wasn't that strong at the time, wickened from the power he gave to the earth. Or something like that? Heard it can be read in Morgoth's Ring)

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

I wouldn't call Fingolfin hot-tempered because the challenge, or at all. Fingolfin was desperate, and he thought he's going to die anyway - whether he challenges Morgoth or not. I'm not sure what he knew, but someone lied to him... andhe thought they were going to lose to Morgoth anyway. I assume he wanted to hurt Morgoth before he dies, because I'm sure he knew he cannot fight Morgoth.

You touch into another interesting matter here Rad, that Fingolfin should think that this was "the utter ruin of the Noldor". How could he think so, when Finrod still ruled in Nargothrond, and Turgon was king in his hidden city? Minas Tirith was still standing, guarded by Orodreth. You're right about the lies, whoever told Fingolfin that Fëanor's sons had been forced to flee from their lands did not tell all the truth. Himring was not taken, and Maglor and Maedhros held the enemy at bay there.

Originally Posted by Beren3000

He was driven by courage and desperation then. Fëanor was driven by pride and rage, he wanted a vendetta (on a huge scale of course) waged against Morgoth for very personal reasons. On the other hand, Fingolfin challenged Morgoth to a duel in order to maintain the honor and respect of the Noldor and prove that they're not to be subdued easily. I think the distinction is clear between the two actions.

I think Fingolfin was also full of pride and wrath and wanted revenge, but I agree that his challenge was also a valiant one, that it was not for personal reasons, and that his moral grounds were better than Fëanor's. Still I think he should have counted to 10 and then maybe been able to restrain himself. The Sil says that "a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar." A magnificent sight I'm sure, but he should know that he was riding to a certain defeat and death. And I think he would have been of greater use alive, as High King among his people.

Originally Posted by Lefty Scaevola

The result of the duel, inclduing 8 wounds to Morgoth, show that it was not entirely hopless. If you can woulnd an opponents in so chancey a thing as personal combat, you have some chance to beat him. Remeber that Morgoth was arleady much disapated by the first 455 years of the war of the Jewels, and that he would be toppled about a century later.

It was truly a great fight on Fingolfin's side, but what were really his chances? A Vala against an Elf. The Sil says about Morgoth that "his might was greatest of all things in this world". He was only overthrown later because the rest of the Valar eventually made war against him.

[Artanis]

Originally Posted by Beren3000

Wow! I've never read that before. Where is it mentioned (not in the Sil., I hope or else I'll have to get an Alzheimer's check )?

No need for a doctor's call yet, it's not in the Sil. From the top of my head: HoME 10 (History of Middle Earth) Morgoth's Ring, Laws and Customs of the Eldar. I'm sure it is told other places in the HoME series too, but this is the only reference I can come up with right now.

Originally Posted by Beren3000

It does explain a lot, though. So Fëanor's punishment would be that his fëa would never be reincarnated and so suffer eternally; justice is served

Heehee. How cruel of you. I think even Fëanor would have been allowed reincarnation if he had been willing to repent. But unfortunately I think he would not regret nothing, not even after his death.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally Posted by Radagast The Brown

But isn't he the strongest of the Ainur that came to Ea?

Was, but vastly diminished in total strenth bu 455, and he had most of his remaining power invest in the constant domination of millions or billions of wills across Middle earth, and into phycical controll of the substance of ME, rather than have it invest in personal combat power (Unlike, say, the Balrogs, who have most of the much smaller power invested into a form for personal battle and terror). If he had a significant fraction of the power of a Vala directly available to his for the combat, Fingolgin would not have laid steel upon him. He defended his existance and rule through the bodies of others, in his vast armies controled by his power. He was vulnerable when this system broke down and he had to hazard his personal incanation upon the fieod of battle. Notice how he was otherwise catious never to expose his body to any enemy action, when his personal presences could have swung the result of so many battles. If he was not vulnerable in the flesh, he would have personally leb forces and obliterated Beleriand, starting with Doriath and Melian in the first battle. Knowledge and fear of his vulnerability kept him remote from armed anemies.

[brownjenkins]

i had a lot to say... but after reading this thread, i'd have to say artanis said it better than i would

fëanor was a hothead, no doubt... but that is no reason to call one evil... i think his love was strong for his parents and children and he followed his passions in the way he saw as correct... maybe a bit too strongly, maybe not

in the end, middle earth would have ended up a pretty gloomy place without fëanor