Andrea Yates...?

[Aeryn]

Okay, every one knows the story about Andrea Yates , she murdered her 5 children, drowned them in her bath tub. 5 kids...can you imagine?
She claimed it was what God wanted, and she also said "...I have a little satan in me." First who wanted her to do it? She needs to get her story straight. Second, who would have followed that loony bible thumper in the first place "It is better to tie a stone around your neck and throw yourself in the ocean than cause a little one to stumble." "You can't own a house." and stuff like that. Who wouldn't have seen right through that?

My reason for this thread is to ask you, whether or not you think she was sane when she commited the murders.

Facts: She PLANNED it for the only time that no one would be around. She had started with the youngest child, her only daughter, who was 5 months because a BABY can't alert the older children, a HELPLESS BABY .

It absolutlely (sp) disgusts me that anyone ANYONE would ponder this, LET ALONE go through with it.

I think she was sane, and she followed through. That's my opinion.

[Laurelyn]

Aeryn; tell me, have you seen the effects of PPD closehand, or are you working by hearsay?
Sane and inbalanced are different, very different, and it's a fine line between depressed and crazy. When the pendulum swings, do you think it stops?
Do you think the girl who slits her wrists is sane? Do you think the girl who starves herself purposely just to be in control of some tiny aspect of her life is sane? Do you think the man who beat his wife was sane? The sniper in Washington?
When the sun sets, does the earth stop turning?
If you hit bottom, are you any less heavy? I can promise nobody's standing there with a net.
The gardens you wanted in the house somebody out-bid you for; the child who takes so much of your time.
Tell me, where is the point of no return?
Where is the point where the lifeline -- breaks?

[Aeryn]

Errr....what?

[Laurelyn]

Hmm . . . I'm wondering if you saw what I meant. Oh, well.
Will now go read up on all the fine points of the trial so I can explain better.

[Elenka]

Man...Laurelyn, you just started spouting some pretty weird stuff...So hows this?
~Do you think the girl who rambles about sanity on a Madhouse thread is sane?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Andrea Yates is mentally unstable. Does that justify her actions? No. My opinion is that some of this blame should lie with her husband as well. Any husband that knows his wife is suffering from extream postpartum depression and ignores it and continues to have children with that woman, and then makes her home school all of them is a nutcase himself, and he should be on trial right there with her.

[Aeryn]

*thoroughly and indefinitely confuZzled* What?



Who?


(SGH I'm agreed )

[Laurelyn]

No, of course not, 'lenka. No way am I normal or whatever . . . but I'm not truly out of it like Andrea must have been.
Not that it can entirely excuse her actions. I don't say that. Her husband is at fault too, as SGH says . . . in fact, I agree with basically everything SGH said. Only- I think that she only knew to a certain extent. The definitions to be legally insane are baloney!

What does it mean to lose your world?

BTW- this is typical of me, to be cryptic and metaphoric. If you're too confused, ignore me.

I repeat my first question: Aeryn, have you seen the effects of PPD for yourself?

[Aeryn]

Post Partum Depression? Yes.

I didn't understand what you were talking about with all your cynisism (if that's what it was) and metophorisim (if that's a word) and cryptisism (I doubt that is a word).

I almost tuned you out!

[Fred Baggins]

Personally I don't think she was sane. But then what can I say, Abraham was commanede by God to kill his son, and he almost did, till God told him it was just a test. So I don't have any clue what I think. Buhbye.

[Coney]

Is post partum depression the same as post-natal depression (baby blues), the depression suffered by many women after childbirth?

[azalea]

I, too, think the husband deserves part of the blame. I think that it doesn't matter if she was sane or not, the woman should not be let back into society, or she should be sterilized and not be allowed to adopt or take care of any children after a long lockup. The only thing the sane/ insane question should affect is where she serves the time -- a prison or a max security mental institution. I think that she was insane at the time, but it is no excuse. She should be willing to serve her punishment. SHE should never have agreed to have more kids, knowing how she felt after the first couple (I forget when exactly she was having symptoms). I mean, they acted like they were in a child-bearing contest or it was an assignment they'd given themselves or something: "must have 5 children." So even though she was having a hard time "we haven't met our goal, so we must keep going!" It's ridiculous! Some people I've talked to said they think he was abusive, at least emotionally. Did he ever get any kind of punishment?

[azalea]

Originally posted by Coney
Is post partum depression the same as post-natal depression (baby blues), the depression suffered by many women after childbirth?

Yes, but they say she had post partum psychosis, a very severe form of PPD.

[Coney]

TY azalea.........I'm going to find what information I can on this, very grim, topic now.

[Sister Golden Hair]

I don't think he was held accountable in any way.

I'm not sure about this, so maybe someone can tell me, but did I here that she was pregnant at the time of her arrest?

[Aeryn]

Coney- here's the diff.

The baby blues happen in many women in the days right after childbirth. A new mother can have sudden mood swings, such as feeling very happy and then feeling very sad. She may cry for no reason and can feel impatient, irritable, restless, anxious, lonely, and sad. The baby blues may last only a few hours or as long as 1 to 2 weeks after delivery. The baby blues do not always require treatment from a health care provider. Often, joining a support group of new moms or talking with other moms helps.

Postpartum depression (PPD) can happen a few days or even months after childbirth. PPD can happen after the birth of any child, not just the first child. A woman can have feelings similar to the baby blues - sadness, despair, anxiety, irritability - but she feels them much more strongly than she would with the baby blues. PPD often keeps a woman from doing the things she needs to do every day. When a woman's ability to function is affected, this is a sure sign that she needs to see her health care provider right away. If a woman does not get treatment for PPD, symptoms can get worse and last for as long as 1 year. While PPD is a serious condition, it can be treated with medication and counseling.

Signs -Feeling restless or irritable.

Feeling sad or crying a lot.

Having no energy.

Having headaches, chest pains, heart palpitations (the heart being fast and feeling like it is skipping beats), numbness, or hyperventilation (fast and shallow breathing).

Not being able to sleep or being very tired, or both.

Not being able to eat and weight loss.

Overeating and weight gain.

Trouble focusing, remembering, or making decisions.

Being overly worried about the baby.

Not having any interest in the baby.

Feeling worthless and guilty.

Being afraid of hurting the baby or yourself.

No interest or pleasure in activities, including sex.

A woman may feel anxious after childbirth but not have PPD. She may have what is called postpartum anxiety or panic disorder. Signs of this condition include strong anxiety and fear, rapid breathing, fast heart rate, hot or cold flashes, chest pain, and feeling shaky or dizzy. Talk with your health care provider right away if you have any of these signs. Medication and counseling can be used to treat postpartum anxiety.



Postpartum psychosis is a very serious mental illness that can affect new mothers. This illness can happen quickly, often within the first 3 months after childbirth. Women can lose touch with reality, often having auditory hallucinations (hearing things that aren't actually happening, like a person talking) and delusions (seeing things differently from what they are). Visual hallucinations (seeing things that aren't there) are less common. Other symptoms include insomnia (not being able to sleep), feeling agitated (unsettled) and angry, and strange feelings and behaviors. Women who have postpartum psychosis need treatment right away and almost always need medication. Sometimes women are put into the hospital because they are at risk for hurting themselves or someone else.

Clearer Coney?

Azalea,
I agree with most of the stuff you said, but you surehave a way of making things sound...err...mean *DONT HURT ME!*

[Coney]

Aeryn:

You think that anyone who killed chidren was SANE

TY Aeryn I know exactly what it is, it was the colloquialisms I was having trouble with. The terms for describing post natal depression are different in each country

I was reffering to the criminal case you wished to discuss in the beginning of the thread when I reffered to myself researching further.

[azalea]

I won't hurt you; I'm a very gentle person! But now that I'm a mommy myself, things like this make me feel VERY mean! We just had a case here in NC where yet another stupid mother thought it was a great idea to have her boyfriend watch her two kids from a previous relationship, and guess what -- the two year old ended up dead because the boyfriend beat him and threw him through a window! It just makes me sick to think about the pain and fear that poor little boy went through, just like the children must have felt in the Yates case. But the fact that it was their own mother must have made it ten times worse.

[Dussander]

Ah herm
SGH, no she wasn't pregnant when she was arrested.

The husband was not held accountable because after the birth of their daughter Mary (the 5 month old), he took her to a PPD clinic and brought her there repeatedly for checkups. (did what he could for his wife he put it in a book called Breaking Point that he AND his wife knew of the dangers in having another child but thought of it like, "Being offered a free Mercedes (sp) but they would have to go through a week of the flu" It was a no brainer for them, they loved their children, and nothing made them happier)

Andrea was known to pocket her pills (hide them in her cheeks to later spit them out), and also to flush her meds. So if she was" insane " at the time, SHE did it.

I believe it was the PPD that was the MAJOR factor in her...lunacy, but little factors like her beliefs, and the stress of having 5 kids, and taking care of them day in and day out finally broke her into doing what she did. I'm not excusing her actions, they were wrong, but I believe that their was outside influences on her.

Even though she had alot of stress and a crackpot for a pastor, the husband and herself CHOSE the children, CHOSE the man they would follow, and CHOSE to go against the advice of their physician.

I believe that having to wake up every moring knowing your WIFE killed your children, And constantly asking yourself the why's and if's is more punishment than her husband (don't know his name) deserves.

Andrea can't take back what she did, insane or not. Her children will never get a bloody nose, or give one. Will never marry. Never have children of their own. Questioning her sanity is a moot question. Asking how it could have been is moot too. It's done, and they are dead. PERIOD.