Numenorean Population Sizes

I was wondering how many people came to Middle Earth in the 9 ships in which Elendil and his sons escaped the downfall. How could 9 ships carry enough people (and warriors) to have founded 3 cities and to have given Sauron's forces a good fight? Were there still many Numenoreans present at the harbors that had been founded in earlier years? Did the Numenoreans join with other humans already living in Middle Earth. It's hard to imagine 1 ship carrying more than 1000 people. If there were 9000 total people aboard the 9 ships, they probably included no more than 2-3 thousand warriors. That doesn't seem like a large enough number for the war which subsequently was fought. And as long as we are talking numbers, how many elves joined in the Last Alliance? Any input would be welcomed.

There were many Numenoreans already living in the lands which were incorporated into Arnor and Gondor when Elendil and his sons brought the last survivors of Numenor to Middle-earth. And, for what it's worth, they founded at least five cities: Annuminas, Fornost Erain, Minas Anor, Osgiliath, and Minas Ithil.

The Numenoreans on the ships probably became the upper crust of society in the two kingdoms. It is one of my (unprovable) theories that the six ship captains besides Elendil, Isildur, and Anarion founded princely houses, of which we know virtually nothing. But there were three regions in Gondor not directly governed by the kings: Belfalas, Calenardhon, and Lebennin. Belfalas had a princely family, who became the Lords of Dol Amroth. One of the traditions concerning this family was that Elendil himself gave them the title of "prince", at least in part because they were related to him somehow. And there was a prince of Cardolan who was the last of his Line when he died in Tyrn Gorthad in the war of 1409, but he was not an heir of Isildur.

how do you get something to appear below your name, like "Elven loremaster"? I should like to insert "loremaster of that which is indulged", or "consumer of that which makes one fat", or "midge-monster of many stomachs" or somesuch appropriate tittle for the big boned hobbits of the entmoot. I'm new to this strange board, and I should like some pointers, I normally post on a much more simpler format on the VN Boards....PHAW, I'm off to put something in my mouth before it goes off on a rant....

Never mind I have mysteriously gained the name "hobbit" under my name! What a magical place!

Read the thread on user titles. There's a link to it at the top of the main page. Michael has been given special consideration and is not in the "hierarchy", but you never know, perhaps of you ask the admins nicely, you can get a unique title.

Edited to add: There used to be a link at the top of the main page which explained the user titles. It has disappeared. There is a thread called "New User Titles" in the General Messages forum. Sorry, I don't know how to do that fancy link thing. You'll have to look down to maybe last week in the thread titles over there.

I never noticed the title change. Thanks. I look at people's names to see whose post I'm reading but seldom notice anything else (except the pictures -- I see the pictures).

Yep, that's you, Ben thought it was fitting and I agree with him

Boy, these questions are getting more and more complex! This one is beyond me!

I entered 25 Hobbits, but I couldn't find a place to vote for The Tolkien Trail,...where is it?

Another accidental posticon

Well by clicking the "25 Hobbits" link in Tater's signature and then entering, you are voting for us . Thanks. There's also a link to it at the main TolkienTrail.com page.

I sort of deduced that Gondor was already settled when Elendil & Sons sailed over. But think of it, Gondor had access to the sea, Arnor did not. May have made it a little more difficult to settle..... maybe Arnor wasn't very heavily populated to begin with? Might explain why an itty kingdom like Angmar was able to wear it down, Arnor was "frontier country".

Arnor DID have access to the sea. It just didn't become a naval power. It appears that Arnor's chief port (perhaps the only one) was Tharbad. Sea-faring ships could sail up the river as far as Tharbad, which had harborage capable of handling the ships.

The information about Tharbad is provided in Unfinished Tales.

RE: It appears that Gondor's chief port (perhaps the only one) was Tharbad.
Counts off other known Gondorian ports on fingers:
Pelargir
Harlond - below Minas Tirith
Osgiliath
Dol Amroth
Linhir

Mea Culpa. That should have read "Arnor's chief port", and I've now edited the message to correct my mistake.

Yes, Gondor had a lot of ports, and its chief port was Pelargir, I think (hard to say, but I believe Pelargir was the most important).

I don't know much about Tharbad. It wasn't mentioned in LOTR, so I had no idea. Still, one Arnorian port vs a half dozen Gondorian ports might make Gondor a lot easier to settle than Arnor.

What do we know about Tharbad? All I could gather was it was part of Cardolan, and a possible refuge of the Dunedain after the fall of Arthedain.

I'm rather curious about the Wild Men of Druadan Forest. They wore grass skirts.... isn't it a bit cold? Unless Gondor was positively tropical....

We learn a good deal about Tharbad in Unfinished Tales. It was jointly held by Gondor and Arnor for a long time. There were two long sloping ramps which led up to the bridge at Tharbad, and ships were able to stay there. Both kingdoms maintained forts and garrisons at the city.

Gondor lost interest in Tharbad after the Great Plague of 1636. And LOTR does mention Tharbad. Boromir lost his horse there. Appendix B says the town was deserted in 2912 after flooding destroyed it.

Where did Elendil land? I assumed it was at Lune, but now that I know more about Tharbad...

As far as I know, Elendil landed in Lindon somewhere. It could have been at Forlond, Harlond, or one of the Mithlond havens.

Isn't Lindon Elvish country? So Elendil landed there, Cirdan comes out to greet him.... then Elendil makes his grand speech:

"Out of the Great Sea unto Middle Earth I am come. ...etc." plus the bit where he and his descendants staying put until the End of the World.

Pretty rude of him, I'd say.....

Yes, Lindon was Elvish country. But Elendil may not have spoken those words until he established his kingdom. The narrative in LOTR may have been taking some liberties. Aragorn didn't speak them until many days after he had sailed up Anduin.