remorse for bad guys?

[Arien the Maia]

does anyone here feel any sort of sorrow or remorse for the "bad guys" of Middle EArth? I know I do. I totally have a soft spot in my heart for Feanor and for Sauron as well. I am convinced that something horrible had to have happened for Sauron to have joined Morgoth/Melkor. I am convinced!!!

[Lizra]

Not me! I hate em...they can all go to that crazy place called....hell! I like the good guys, evil=BORING!

[katya]

I usually do have pity on the bad guys but Melkor for example just doesn't leave much room for my to like him. I always thought of LotR as being a story where in particular I mostly loved the good guys and hated the bad guys. I can at some points find reasons why I would respect some of them, but generally not at all.

Now of course I don't think of Feanor as a bad guy. If he was to be considered a bad guy then yes, I do feel sympathy for him. I love him. -_-

[BeardofPants]

I have a lot of sympathy for Feanor and Smeagol. and I love Feanor as well.

[Grey_Wolf]

Fëanor wasn't really a bad guy, just misguided by Sauron, who was a thoroughly bad guy.

[orithil]

Yeah i kind of understand what happened to feanor i just read his story.

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by Arien

I am convinced that something horrible had to have happened for Sauron to have joined Morgoth/Melkor.

In the immortal words of Al Pacino, "free will ... is a bitch" (err, can I say that?)

Originally Posted by Notes on motives in the Silmarillion, Myths Transformed, Morgoth's Ring

He still had the relics of positive purposes, that descended from the good of the nature in which he began: it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and coordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction. (It was the apparent will and power of Melkor to effect his designs quickly and masterfully that had first attracted Sauron to him.)

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

Fëanor wasn't really a bad guy, just misguided by Sauron, who was a thoroughly bad guy.

I am so sure you meant Melkor, not Sauron .

[Gordis]

Well, as you all know, I do like the nazgul - very much so.

Apart from that, I do feel pity for Melkor himself. He was the most creative guy among the Ainur, and he was never appreciated by his envious colleagues. Neither was he approved by daddy-Eru in anything he did.

Feanor is a similar case, too talented and fiery for his own good.

Sauron seems more of a cold calculating evil type, so less appealing to me.

Saruman I thoroughly dislike. He is a traitor and a double traitor to boot.

Barlogs never had much choice - lesser spirits faithful to Melkor.


Who else there is?

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by Landroval

In the immortal words of Al Pacino, "free will ... is a bitch" (err, can I say that?)


I am so sure you meant Melkor, not Sauron .

But wasn't it Sauron who walked around causing the winter of the elves' discotent, not Melkor who was still making grabs for everything in ME at the time.

[katya]

I don't know man, I always remember it saying Feanor was decieved by the lies of Melkor, not Sauron. Wasn't it Melkor that turned him against the Valar and Fingolfin and all that? It's been kind of a while for me reading but I don't remember much of what Sauron was up to at the time.

[Grey_Wolf]

Well, it's been a while since i read the Sil too, so I might be wrong.

[BeardofPants]

It was Morgoth.

[Farimir Captain of Gondor]

I have no love loss for Sauron or any other immortal. The only 'bad guy' I feel true remorse for is Smeagol. Poor, poor Smeagol. Here's a guy out fishin' with his bestest buddie when they come across the most evil thing in all of Middle-Earth. It causes him to kill his friend, spy on his family and such, and turns him into a twisted being. His only wish was to catch a fish, so juicy sweet, you know.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Well, as you all know, I do like the nazgul - very much so.

Apart from that, I do feel pity for Melkor himself. He was the most creative guy among the Ainur, and he was never appreciated by his envious colleagues. Neither was he approved by daddy-Eru in anything he did.

Feanor is a similar case, too talented and fiery for his own good.

Sauron seems more of a cold calculating evil type, so less appealing to me.

I always felt that Melkor deserved NO sympathy. I don't think that he has ever wanted "good for good's sake". I'm not sure what he ever did that deserved praise from Eru.
now Sauron....as was mentioned, he loved order (not evil in itself) and was for the most part seduced by Melkor. (this of course makes me dislike Melkor all the more while my sympathy for Sauron increases) He also felt remorse for his allegience to Melkor as well as his actions at the end of the War of Wrath. Melkor feigned his remorse for his evil works.
As we all know, I am in absolute LOVE with Feanor so I could never see him as a "bad guy"! seriously though, he was brilliant and ....once again...Melkor proves to be the downfall of yet another great being.
Free Will....hmmm....although I do believe in it, I just think that sometimes people do what they do b/c they have been brainwashed. does that make sense?

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

I have a lot of sympathy for Feanor and Smeagol.

Same here. Feanor is really cool, and Smeagol is a pitiable creature.

Originally Posted by Arien the Maia

Free Will....hmmm....although I do believe in it, I just think that sometimes people do what they do b/c they have been brainwashed.

Don't believe in it too much, Arien dear; that way lies heresy.

[Arien the Maia]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Don't believe in it too much, Arien dear; that way lies heresy.

how is that?

[Grey_Wolf]

Originally Posted by BeardofPants

It was Morgoth.

Thanks, BoP!

[The Telcontarion]

Feanor was indeed good, but was corrupted and made desperate by morgoth's lies and murder of his father; how crazy would you get it that happened to you, who's father was first in aman to have their blood spilled in violence.

I always wished I could smite morgoth myself, and sauron, and maeglin and saruman; sympathy, for them, never!!!

I will say the only characters that did evil deeds, that a feel sympathy for are Maedhros and Maglor. Killing Dior was an evil deed (how could they) and attacking Elwing at the havens was another. But we all know that being the elder sons of their father they felt it was up to them honor their father's wishes and hold to the oath what e'er the cost.

Olorin should have fried worm tongue where he slithered, pathetic wretch.

PS. OK, maybe denethor needs sympathy too, maybe, but just; he almost killed Faramir for Eru's sake.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Arien the Maia

how is that?

Believing in free will is correct, but only to a certain extent. Distinctions must be made. In freewill vs. Predestination, Catholic doctrine is closer to (true) Calvinism than to, say, Methodism. I'll see what I can dig up, and PM/email you.

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Neither was he approved by daddy-Eru in anything he did.

If Melkor was just an instrument in Eru's hand, cf Ainulindale, then how can your statement be true? Melkor as doing Eru's will is even more clearly stated in the BoLT versions.