Maedhros and Gwindor

[Elemmírë]

Okay. This has been bothering me for a while. If there's an old thread on it, I'm sorry, but I couldn't find it.

The Silmarillion:

At first his own people did not know Gwindor, who went out young and strong, and returned now seeming as one of the aged among mortal men…

The Lost Road and Other Writings:

Maidros the chief of Feanor's sons did deeds of surpassing valor, and the Orcs could not endure the light of his face; for since his torment upon Thangorodrim his spirit burned with a white fire within, and he was as one that returneth from the dead, keen and terrible; and they fled before him.

After returning from Angband, Gwindor is only a shadow of his former self, while Maedhros, if anything, seems stronger and enhanced because of it. Physically, why are they so different afterwards? Surely Gwindor's torment could not have been worse than Maedhros's. Mentally, was Maedhros more negatively affected than it seems, and is there any evidence?

Any ideas?

[Manveru]

i dont think that Maedhros was in Angband as long as Gwindor, and his torment was very different. Maedhros was a hostage:

Morgoth held Maedhros as hostage, and sent word that he would not release him unless the Noldor would forsake their war

But Gwindor was forced to toil in Angband:

Many of the Noldor and Sindar they took captive and led to Angband, and made them thralls, forcing them to use their skill and knowledge in the service of Morgoth. And Morgoth sent out his spies... But the Noldor feared most the treachery of their own kin, who had been thralls in Angband; for Morgoth used some of these for his evil purposes, feigning to give them liberty sent them abroad, but their wills were chained to his, and they strayed only to come back to him. Therefore if any of is captives escaped in truth, and returned to their own people, they had little welcome, and wandered alone outlawed and desperate.

so i think that whereas Maedhros was basically just left in a dungeon and then chained to a wall, Gwindor was a slave of Morgoth and worked endlessly in his mines and smithys, so when Maedhros was freed he wanted revenge on Morgoth, but when Gwindor escaped he was utterly exhausted and he appeared old and frail.

[Elemmírë]

Actually, I considered that.

Okay, Turin was 8 years old at the Nirnaeth and dwelt in Thingol's halls for 9 years. He wandered around for X years, and was still just entering full manhood when Gwindor brought him to Nargothrond. So, in my estimation, Gwindor was probably in Angband somewhere between 10 and 15 years.

In an old post, it had been stated that Maedhros was a captive for 23-24 years of the sun.

Personally... I think that being hanged off a cliff for that long is worse than toiling in a dungeon...

[Wayfarer]

For a human, perhaps.

For an Elf, whose body is meant to last forever, just hanging there probably wouldn't nescessarily be that tormentous, as long as A) The stress wasn't more than they could handle, and B) They still got whatever sustenance they needed. I can easily see a healthy elf being able to 'hang around' practically forever in those conditions.

Also - is it explicitly stated that Maedhros was left hanging from the cliff? I always thought he had been left standing on a ledge, with one arm chained above his head (otherwise how would Fingon have been able to get alongside him and cut him down?)

[Elemmírë]

Therefore Morgoth took Maedhros and hung him from the face of a precipice upon Thangorodrim...

Now... our favourite dictionary says:

precipice
1. An overhanging or extremely steep mass of rock, such as a crag or the face of a cliff.
2. The brink of a dangerous or disastrous situation: on the precipice of defeat.

too many definitions for "hung"
#1 says "To fasten from above with no support from below; suspend."

I think that's explicit.

And it is described as "torment", and of course, Morgoth isn't exactly a nice guy...

[Maedhros]

This one is for my friend Artanis!

Let's get the facts straight:
Maedhros was captured in 1498 Age of the Trees.
Maedhros was released from Angband in the year 5 of the FA. (Age of the Sun)
I have made a transformation since the beginning of time, through the end of the first age. The time between his capture and release would be aprox: 720005 - 719712 years of the sun = 293 years in which he was imprisioned.
Or if you prefer 2*144 + 5 = 293 years. (See Annals of Aman for the dates)
(Note= 1 Valian year = 144 sun years. ) See note 5 of Myths Transfomred in Morgoth's Rings

As for Gwindor:
He was captured in 472 FA and released in 489 FA. So he was held for 17 years.

Therefore comments like these:

i dont think that Maedhros was in Angband as long as Gwindor, and his torment was very different.

Okay, Turin was 8 years old at the Nirnaeth and dwelt in Thingol's halls for 9 years. He wandered around for X years, and was still just entering full manhood when Gwindor brought him to Nargothrond. So, in my estimation, Gwindor was probably in Angband somewhere between 10 and 15 years.

In an old post, it had been stated that Maedhros was a captive for 23-24 years of the sun.

Are funny.
There are these manuscripts and typescripts called: Annals of Aman, Grey Annals and Tale of Years to look for the dates when the events happened in the FA.

After returning from Angband, Gwindor is only a shadow of his former self, while Maedhros, if anything, seems stronger and enhanced because of it.

Perhaps the answer lies in this:
From the Lays of Beleriand: The Flight of the Noldoli from Valinor

Then his sons beside him, the seven kinsmen,
crafty Curufin, Celegorm the fair,
Damrod and Diriel and dark Cranthir,
Maglor the mighty, and Maidros tall
(the eldest, whose ardour yet more eager burnt
than his father’s flame, than Fëanor’s wrath;

I really burned with the fire of the One.

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Also - is it explicitly stated that Maedhros was left hanging from the cliff? I always thought he had been left standing on a ledge, with one arm chained above his head (otherwise how would Fingon have been able to get alongside him and cut him down?)

After Fingon said his prayer to Manwe, Thorondor came and stayed Fingon's hand from his bow and lifted him up to where Maedhros hung.