nazgul fun after some real questions - Page 2

afro-elf · 11-19-2001, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Nine for mortal MEN...

men as in mankind

think of glorfindel's prophecy about the witch-king/lord of the nazgul

that he couldn't be slain by mortal men
and eowyn (female) and merry (hobbit) did

it didn't say

elves

dwarves

males

that would be like

french

latinos

and males

not balanced

Agburanar · 11-20-2001, 04:58 AM

If you think about the role of Women in Tolkien's work they're just as important as men, if not more. Galadriel is much more powerful and understanding than Celeborn, Eowyn is a great warrior etc. Why shouldn't one of the ringwraiths have been female?

Wayfarer · 11-20-2001, 01:39 PM

lelondol's just upset because the swans have migrated. Don't let him bother you.

Agburanar · 12-19-2001, 05:07 AM

Coming back to the question of Nazgul definitions, in book 2 Gandalf says to Pippin "It is a winged black rider, a nazgul." This would suggest that the two are like stages in the 'life cycle' of the ringwraiths. Radagast calls them nazgul but then says that they have taken the guise of riders in black, suggesting they do not normally adopt this form. A 'black rider' on horseback is a more suitable form for a ringwraith to take for hunting 'inconspicuously' whereas a winged Nazgul is more suited to the war.

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 12-19-2001, 06:09 PM

Lelondul my friend, look at one of those other Ring lines: 'Three Rings for the Elven Kings under the sky'. But who got the Rings? Gil-galad, who gave his to Elrond, CÃ*rdan who gave his to Gandalf and Galadriel. Of all these Gil-galad is the only King, Gandalf is not Elven and Galadriel is not even male. So I guess there still could be a female Ringwraith, thought I highly doubt it.

Aragorn · 12-19-2001, 09:49 PM

Nine for mortel men doomed to die.

The Nazgul were the Ring Bearers of the nine rings made by man. I assume all the ring bearers were men because in medieval times Kings were mostly more powerful the Queens. The nine ring bearers were captured and turned into the Ring-Wraiths, their ideal job to locate the One Ring. I hope that was of help, if you found it pointless and not helpful, that's just too bad.

Kirinki54 · 12-20-2001, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Lelondul my friend, look at one of those other Ring lines: 'Three Rings for the Elven Kings under the sky'. But who got the Rings? Gil-galad, who gave his to Elrond, CÃ*rdan who gave his to Gandalf and Galadriel. Of all these Gil-galad is the only King, Gandalf is not Elven and Galadriel is not even male. So I guess there still could be a female Ringwraith, thought I highly doubt it.

What sort of a leader was Cirdan anyway? Wherever he lived, he seemed to be on top, or am I mistaken?

Wayfarer · 12-20-2001, 09:55 PM

Cirdan was an elf lord, but not nescessarily a King per se. He ruled the Falas of Beleriand durnint the First Age.

Ã‘Ã³lendil · 12-20-2001, 09:59 PM

He was also of Elwe's kin, though we're never told the nature of the kinship.

Wayfarer · 12-20-2001, 10:27 PM

That must be why I couldn't remember what it was.

afro-elf · 12-21-2001, 12:50 PM

remember that man/men means HUMANS not males here

Wayfarer · 12-22-2001, 05:48 PM

Yes, although you ought tobe careful about using it that way today.

unless you're an accomplished flamer like me. ]: )

11-20-2001, 01:39 PM	#3
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	lelondol's just upset because the swans have migrated. Don't let him bother you. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-19-2001, 06:09 PM	#5
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	Lelondul my friend, look at one of those other Ring lines: 'Three Rings for the Elven Kings under the sky'. But who got the Rings? Gil-galad, who gave his to Elrond, CÃ*rdan who gave his to Gandalf and Galadriel. Of all these Gil-galad is the only King, Gandalf is not Elven and Galadriel is not even male. So I guess there still could be a female Ringwraith, thought I highly doubt it. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

12-19-2001, 09:49 PM	#6
Aragorn Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Anywhere but where I should be. Posts: 369	Nine for mortel men doomed to die. The Nazgul were the Ring Bearers of the nine rings made by man. I assume all the ring bearers were men because in medieval times Kings were mostly more powerful the Queens. The nine ring bearers were captured and turned into the Ring-Wraiths, their ideal job to locate the One Ring. I hope that was of help, if you found it pointless and not helpful, that's just too bad. __________________ And they carried them to the flatlands But they died along the way And they built up with their bare hands What we still can't do today. EIDRIORCQWSDAKLMEDDCWWTIWOATTOPWFIO till the day I die.

12-20-2001, 09:55 PM	#8
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Cirdan was an elf lord, but not nescessarily a King per se. He ruled the Falas of Beleriand durnint the First Age. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-20-2001, 09:59 PM	#9
Ã‘Ã³lendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	He was also of Elwe's kin, though we're never told the nature of the kinship. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

11-20-2001, 04:58 AM	#2
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	If you think about the role of Women in Tolkien's work they're just as important as men, if not more. Galadriel is much more powerful and understanding than Celeborn, Eowyn is a great warrior etc. Why shouldn't one of the ringwraiths have been female?

12-19-2001, 05:07 AM	#4
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Coming back to the question of Nazgul definitions, in book 2 Gandalf says to Pippin "It is a winged black rider, a nazgul." This would suggest that the two are like stages in the 'life cycle' of the ringwraiths. Radagast calls them nazgul but then says that they have taken the guise of riders in black, suggesting they do not normally adopt this form. A 'black rider' on horseback is a more suitable form for a ringwraith to take for hunting 'inconspicuously' whereas a winged Nazgul is more suited to the war.

12-20-2001, 10:27 PM	#10
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	That must be why I couldn't remember what it was. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

12-21-2001, 12:50 PM	#11
afro-elf Hoplite Nomad Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 3,931	remember that man/men means HUMANS not males here __________________ About Eowyn, Does anyone know what her alias Dernhelm means? She was kown as dernhelm because of her exclaimation when she realized that the rider's headgear was heavy and obscured her sight. 'Dern Helm" Culled from Entmoot From Kirinski 57 and Wayfarer.

12-22-2001, 05:48 PM	#12
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Yes, although you ought tobe careful about using it that way today. unless you're an accomplished flamer like me. ]: ) __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

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