aragorn's broken blade

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by Christiana

But in FOTR (book) Aragorn says to Sam "not much use, is it Sam? But the time is near when it shall be forged anew."

mithrand1r: the blade is described as being broken a foot below the hilt, not a foot from the tip, which wouldn't give Aragorn a sword of any length to fight with. He might have had another sword to fight with, but was carrying Narsil as proof to the hobbits of who he was and also as a reminder that the shards would soon be forged again and he would have to assume all the burdens that that entailed.

Thanks for the clarification.

p=850

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by mithrand1r

IIRC, The sword was reforged during the Council of Elrond, before the fellowship embarked on their journey southward.

Well, not during the Council, but surely before the journey

Originally Posted by The ring goes south, FotR

The Sword of Elendil was forged anew by Elvish smiths, and on its blade was traced a device of seven stars set between the crescent Moon and the rayed Sun, and about them was written many runes; for Aragorn son of Arathorn was going to war upon the marches of Mordor.

Originally Posted by Christiana

the blade is described as being broken a foot below the hilt, not a foot from the tip, which wouldn't give Aragorn a sword of any length to fight with.

Indeed

Originally Posted by Strider, FotR

He drew out his sword, and they saw that the blade was indeed broken a foot below the hilt.

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by Landroval

Well, not during the Council, but surely before the journey
Indeed

True. Actually, I was referring to the location in the book where this occurred.

It does bring a funny image to mind. A blacksmith hammering away in reforging the sword while people in the council are trying to listen to someone describe the history of the ring.


p851

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by mithrand1r

True. Actually, I was referring to the location in the book where this occurred.

It does bring a funny image to mind. A blacksmith hammering away in reforging the sword while people in the council are trying to listen to someone describe the history of the ring.


p851

"So who--" CLANG! "--shall--" CLANG! "--take the ring to--" CLANG! "--Oh, for Eru's sake, will you shut up!"

[Lefty Scaevola]

It is rather odd to me that he carried the broken sword, other that some unexplaied symbolism of it.
I suppose, without any evidence, that is also posbbile that carried some still useful enchament, although it is clear that some of the enchantments were lost when is was broken ("its light was extinguished"). If so, it might have be particularly powerful reforged with both some of the old enchantments(Dwarven, by their greatest smith, Telcar) and new, Noldrin enchantments.

[Christiana]

I think it's main power lay in the symbolism.

[Valandil]

I was looking for this and couldn't find it - but I think there's a suggestion somewhere that Aragorn had left the area around Bree and the Shire for a quick "errand" of some sort back to Rivendell.

I may have seen this in a Michael Martinez article, but I don't recall which one, or which place he quoted Tolkien on that (and he usually does so - quite fluently). MM speculated that Aragorn did not normally carry Narsil's shards around with him, but went back to Rivendell to get them just before he would meet up with the hobbits - wanting to have that on him as the crucial times drew near - of the Ring's finding and the nearing re-forging of that blade (even to have on him the very blade used to cut from Sauron's finger the Ring which would be coming into his presence for the first time).

Wish I could give more concrete information than that.

[GrayMouser]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

An interesting point. But now I'm not quite sure when Narsil was reforged. Did the event indeed take place during the first book? I made the big mistake, when I read them, of reading two Star Wars books in between, thereby messing up any hope of an accurate flow of events in the story.

Yes, it was just before the point where Obi-wan taught Aragorn to let the Force flow through him. I always remember that because of the following part, where Elrond and Yoda revealed that Darth Vader had been revived and was leading the Nazgul. Hope that clears it up

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by GrayMouser

Yes, it was just before the point where Obi-wan taught Aragorn to let the Force flow through him. I always remember that because of the following part, where Elrond and Yoda revealed that Darth Vader had been revived and was leading the Nazgul. Hope that clears it up

Oh, right. That was before they destroyed the One Yuuzhan Vong Worlship, right?

[Kevin McIntyre]

Originally Posted by afro-elf

wouldn't it have been better for aragorn to leave the shards of is blade in imladris?

and carry a real sword with him

his dad and grand dad where killed in the wilds.


When did he start carrying it around ?

he HAD to use other blades when he was younger in the guise of thorongil

I don't believe Aragorn carried all the shards with him, that really seams far-fetched, however a foot long blade would have a use in the wild as a knife. I am not sure if Narsil had any runes on it (like the reforged Anduril did) so it may have gone unrecognized by the Steward of Gondor (who may not have known what the hilt looked like anyway). Besides if Aragorn carried a full sized sword with him (which isn't clear to me from the story) it would be what is presented to any steward or king when submitting to their service.

[olsonm]

Originally Posted by Valandil

I may have seen this in a Michael Martinez article, but I don't recall which one, or which place he quoted Tolkien on that (and he usually does so - quite fluently). MM speculated that Aragorn did not normally carry Narsil's shards around with him, but went back to Rivendell to get them just before he would meet up with the hobbits

I also read that article (or one just like it) by MM. It was as good an explanation as any I've seen on the question. The theory suggests that Aragorn retrieved the shards more for the symbolism then anything else. He wouldn't have thought he needed to identify himself to the hobbits since he believed Gandalf would be there.

And since the sword was only to be reforged when the Ring was found it would make sense that it should journey with the Ring to Rivendell. Especially if the shards were no longer kept in Rivendell as MM also suggested in the article.

Unfortunately for Aragorn, Gandalf disappeared, the Ringwraiths arrived and he was in the wild with a broken sword.

[Gordis]

I don't think Aragorn had Narsil with him when he served in Gondor and Rohan. Aragorn came there not to claim kinship (yet) so he must have kept his heirlooms (Narsil and the Ring of Barahir) hidden. The Steward Ecthelion and Denethor would have recognized the blade, as would the King Thengel who spent his youth in Gondor. Even young Eomer, when later Aragorn shows him Anduril and says " Here is the Sword that was Broken and is forged again! ", understands what he is talking about.

For 17 years before 3018 Aragorn was hunting for Gollum. That task took him to very perilous places, like Morgul Vale and near the Black gate. Do you think he had Narsil with him? I guess not - as being captured with this blade would be far worse than death. The blade, if dicovered, would lead the prisoner to Barad Dur for questioning by the Dark Lord himself.

So, when did he start to carry the blade with him - or why?

"When" is the easiest here, as he must have passed through Imladris on his way from Mirkwood where he had delivered the captured Gollum. That would be somewhere in spring 3018.

Why did he take the broken blade with him when going towards the Shire?
I guess when Gandalf told him about Gollum's revelations Aragorn must have understood that THE time – his time- has finally come. Elrond might have confirmed this thought - he foresaw the future to an extent. Maybe Elrond has foretold that the contests that would await him on this quest “would not be fought with weapons?” (see the quote below)”

Anyway, starting from Imladris, instead of a normal, functional, blade Aragorn has taken what remained of Narsil -and it was not more than a knife, only one foot of the blade left. I say "instead" basing on this quote from the Letters where Tolkien criticizes the Weathertop scene in the Zimmerman's film script.

Strider does not 'Whip out a sword' in the book. Naturally not: his sword was broken. (Its elvish light is another false anticipation of the reforged Anduril. Anticipation is one of Z's chief faults.) Why then make him do so here, in a contest that was explicitly not fought with weapons? L#210

[Olmer]

I don't think he ever carried the broken sword, because it would be outright stupid practice for a such wise man.
He had to do the tidings which required some kind of ID, and this why he brought the sword to Bree. He doesn't have to travel far to get it, because he fetched it from Dunedain's station at Sarn Ford.

[Gordis]

Oh - but it would have been so careless to leave the Sword with rangers at Sarn Ford! And what if it has got lost or taken by enemies?
Nay, I would say Rivendell was the only safe place for such a thing...

As for ID... I doubt it served for much with the Hobbits. They have only learned about the broken sword because Gandalf had included the rhyme in his letter. But an agent of the enemy could have shown hobbits any broken sword - they wouldn't know the difference.

As I said before, Aragorn carrying the broken sword around - instead of a normal one - sounds weird. This is the only case when the movie version seems to make more sense.

[olsonm]

Originally Posted by Gordis

As I said before, Aragorn carrying the broken sword around - instead of a normal one - sounds weird.

I don't think it's sounds weird if he was carrying the sword for symbolic reasons, not realizing he would need to fight.

[Gordis]

For symbolic reasons - certainly. And as it happened, he didn't need a sword to fight as the battle with the nazgul "was not fought with weapons"

At Weathertop and at the Ford Aragorn didn't take out a knife, he didn't use Narsil - only flaming branches.
He also told the hobbits to use flaming branches, but not to bare their swords. It was their own idea to use Barrow-Downs swords that has saved Frodo, actually.

The question is how could Aragorn know beforehand that he wouldn't meet say orcs or trolls or evil men? Then he would be sorely lacking a sword. How could he know he would be facing the nazgul -as they came quite unexpectedly for him as well?

[olsonm]

Originally Posted by Gordis

The question is how could Aragorn know beforehand that he wouldn't meet say orcs or trolls or evil men? Then he would be sorely lacking a sword.

It would seem unlikely for Aragorn to expect to encounter any of these beings on the road to Rivendell. And he did expect Gandalf to be there. So he took a calculated risk based on his considerable knowledge of the area.

[Gordis]

The area was far from safe at best - there is a lot of evidence to support this. And the rangers were spread thinly over it. There were lots of fugitives on the road, some of them unfriendly and dangerous.
No, I think it was no calculation - Aragorn's decison must have been based on foresight: his own, or Elrond's.


Ang hmm... have you noticed that Glorfindel apperently had no sword either. At least, it was not mentioned even once...

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Gordis

The question is how could Aragorn know beforehand that he wouldn't meet say orcs or trolls or evil men? Then he would be sorely lacking a sword.

Cause he was quite familiar with a surrounding and knew perfectly well that the last ever known wandering on the west side trolls have, literally, got stoned, the last time when anyone saw orcs in Eriador was nearly 300 years ago at the Greenfield battle. As for the evil men...since the time, when Gondorean army went through the three kingdoms of Arnor, annihilating "evil men", the area has got turned into a kind of Stephen King's Wasteland.I think that the only surviving evil men,who were lurking in desolated areas, known to the dwellers of Bree and the surrounding, were the dunedain themselves.
So, Aragorn could bravely walk around with the broken sword, which is still seems to me as an extremely unwise behavior.

[olsonm]

What Olmer said.