the definative balrog answer :)

[Ñólendil]

The Balrogs are known to be fallen Maiar. All of the Ainur used forms visible to us as clothes, clothes that were expressions of their personalities. So may Yavanna clothe herself as a great tree, crowned by the sun under heaven -- while Melkor's original form on Earth was a great mountain that wades in the water, ice-cloaked and crowned with smoke and fire.

The normal state of your typical Ainu was unclothed, as a naked spirit. Some became Incarnate by their own free will or by design (such as Melian and the Istari), some lost their ability to change shape or walk unclad (such as Melkor and Sauron). Sauron's ability as a 'shape-shifter' is marked, it appears he was better at changing his clothes than others, or had more to choose from by some art. I don't doubt that before the making of the Ring Sauron could have looked like a Balrog if he wished (or look like what a Balrog wished to looked like most of the time). He lossed his ability to change shape after he put so much of himself in the Ring, though he had already been rendered incapable of assuming a fair form after the destruction of Númenor.

CBG (nice avatar btw), 'Vala' means 'Power'.

[Prince Faramir]

"I assume you're using a compound statement/request and not an order in that sentance? In that case, you should make use of a reflexive pronoun. 'I' would be quite suitable.

If you are not, but in fact are stating an imperitive that I dislike my tone, I must reply as follows: Bah!

In any case, I have a number of alternate tones at my disposal. Perhaps you would enjoy one of these?


*outrageous drawl (I.e. my next door neighbor)* "I reckon tha' thisa one is mer suitable, doncha agree?"

*tittering* Oh, yes! Morthoron has a pair of tights _just_ like those, but the chainmail halter is _too_ braldor.

*Nasal* (raises nose in the air, and assumes Erudite stance)Yes, well, you see. My deployment of upherism premonstrating an inference of atticism in a prior theorum is quite frankly, none of your business.

*singing elaborately* Spam (lovely spam) spam spam spam, (beautiful spam) spam spam spam, spam spam spam, wonderful spaaam!

*harsh* Ash nazg durbatuluk! ash nazg gimbatul! Ash nazg thrakatuluk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul!

*/waits for clouds to pass, and elves to uncover their ears, then continues:

*bell tone* DING DONG

*Dial Tone* Beep Beep Beep Beep

*Tuning fork* riiiiiinnnnggggg

*monotone* I...am...run...ning...for...pres...i...dent

Find anything you like?"





Do I insult you for trying [failing miserably though] to be clever, arrogant, obnoxious and patronising?



Or do I just take it on the chin like a proud and dignified Englishman.





Chin it is..........

[Wayfarer]

]:)

[Prince Faramir]

i condiser us to be now message board allies.

[Grendel]

IMHO, the answer to whether balrogs have wings or not can be found here:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/

If you look up 'Balrog', there is an excellent section covering both sides of the argument about balrog wings. It completely cleared the issue up for me.

Grendel

[Agburanar]

The Balrog in Lord of the Rings was awakened by dwarves delving deep into the mountains, yes? Does this mean that they did not serve Sauron, were there more Balrogs in the world, and if they were not connected to Sauron did they continue surviving after Sauron's fall?

[Ñólendil]

The Balrog in Lord of the Rings was awakened by dwarves delving deep into the mountains, yes?

Yep.

Does this mean that they did not serve Sauron, were there more Balrogs in the world, and if they were not connected to Sauron did they continue surviving after Sauron's fall

In itself, I don't think it has anything to say for the Balrog's allegiance. Whether the Balrogs (or Balrog anyway) were/was in the service of Sauron is debated. I do not personally believe there were any other Balrogs left in the world besides the one that Gandalf destroyed. In Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, it is said that most of the Balrogs were destroyed in the War of Wrath and that several hid themselves beneath the earth. But this was written by JRR Tolkien when he thought that there were hosts of Balrogs in existence. He later decided that there were '(say) three or at most seven' of them. If five can be allowed to survive when hosts exists, I doubt any more than one would survive with 3-7 Balrogs altogether.

[Darkside Spirit]

The Balrog is a very mysterious, unseen, but extremely powerful creature. In one way I'd like to know more about it, but on the other hand maybe it's best that it remains a sort of mystery menace.

The Balrog doesn't appear to be as "dark" as the Nazgul, although it is more powerful - IIRC, when a Nazgul passed overhead, Frodo thought that it was not a Balrog, but something more sinister. Correct me if I'm wrong, I only have a vague recollection of that point in the journey.

[Quazar]

A Balrog is a Balrog is a Balrog. Wings or no wings it like the Jabberwalkie in 'Alice In Wonderland'. It is as powerful as our imagination makes it. If it indeed has wings in the movie it will be because the CGI animater decides it will be so.


"A Quote is a Quote is a Quote"

Smiles All

[Dúnedain]

Quoted from Appendix A in LotR under:

Appendix A III: Durin's Folk

It came to pass that in the middle of the Third Age Durin was again its king, being the sixth of that name. The power of Sauron, servant of Morgoth, was then again growing in the world, though the Shadow in the Forest that looked towards Moria was not yet known for what it was. All evil things were stirring. The Dwarves delved deep at that time, seeking beneath Barazinbar for mithril, the metal beyond price that was becoming yearly ever harder to win. Thus they roused from sleep a thing of terror that, flying from Thangorodrim, had lain hidden at the foundations of the earth since the coming of the Host of the West: a Balrog of Morgoth. During was slain by it, and the year after Náin, his son; and then the glory of Moria passed, and its people were destroyed or fled far away.

Had to put my two cents in

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Thus they roused from sleep a thing of terror that, flying from Thangorodrim, had lain hidden at the foundations of the earth since the coming of the Host of the West: a Balrog of Morgoth
________________________________________

Ahhhhh! But does "flying" mean moving through the air or running fast?

Actually that's a good point, maybe they did fly. Good grief, did PJ actually get something right?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
Thus they roused from sleep a thing of terror that, flying from Thangorodrim, had lain hidden at the foundations of the earth since the coming of the Host of the West: a Balrog of Morgoth
________________________________________

Ahhhhh! But does "flying" mean moving through the air or running fast?

Indeed that is a question for the ages. I think though you can place together compelling arguements from both sides of it with other quotes that tie in to both aspects.

See here is my thing. Tolkien uses "fly" in a number of ways in his works, so it is hard to tell in this instance, however if he wanted it to say that the Balrog was escaping or running away, then the proper usage would be the term "flight" which is a derivation of "fly", but who knows

[Attalus]

I have gone to being sure that Balrogs had wings to being sure that they didn't, and now I'm just neutral. To me the most telling evidence that they, or at least some of them did, was the passage in Morgoth's Ring :

Deep in forgotten places [Morgoth's] cry was heard. Far beneath the ruined halls of Angband, in vaults to which the Valar in the haste of their assault had not descended, Balrogs lurked still, awaiting ever the return of their Lord; and now swiftly they arose, and they passed with winged speed over Hithlum they came to Lammoth as a tempest of fire.

(p. 297 in the U.S. hardbacked edition) But, I am also far from convinced that they all looked alike, and what they are made of, since shadow can be said to be a body material for a creature of fire.

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Attalus
I have gone to being sure that Balrogs had wings to being sure that they didn't, and now I'm just neutral. To me the most telling evidence that they, or at least some of them did, was the passage in Morgoth's Ring p. 297 in the U.S. hardbacked edition) But, I am also far from convinced that they all looked alike, and what they are made of, since shadow can be said to be a body material for a creature of fire.

Wow, I've never read that one. That is pretty compelling as well in my opinion...

[Attalus]

Glad you liked it; credit Michael Martinez for pointing it out.

[Grendel]

Gandalf told the fellowship "Fly you fools" just before the Balrog pulled him down. Are you suggesting that he wanted them to sprout wings and take off in the air?

[Dúnedain]

Originally posted by Grendel
Gandalf told the fellowship "Fly you fools" just before the Balrog pulled him down. Are you suggesting that he wanted them to sprout wings and take off in the air?

Like I said, I know Tolkien uses "fly" in different ways, however saying "fly" and "flying" are two different things...Read my comments above...

[Gwaimir Windgem]

While I am an adherent of the "winged Balrog" theory, I think that that quote in the Appendix indicates fleeing more than being winged. Though the MR one is great.

[Attalus]

To me, the telling words in the quote I posted above are "arose" and "with winged speed." Strangely enough, Christopher Tolkien omitted those last three from the published Silmarillion.

[Grendel]

Yes, the balrog "arose" from DEEP underground. It was hiding there for centuries. It had to flee from Angmar when the forces of good were victorious, which is why the phrase "that, flying from thangorodrim" is followed by "had lain hidden". The word "flying" is clearly being used as a synonym for "flee". The balrog had to flee Thangorodrim and run and hide.