My Apology to JK Rowling

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

I've been reading them myself and enjoying them. She's no master of prose, but then, neither was Tolkien. And while some continuity and plot points bug me from time to time, I love the characters, which is enough for a good read.

The characters are my favourite aspect of the books. No one is exactly as he appears. They're very real and layered.

And best of all, there is no obvious "good" or "evil". The only obvious good and evil characters are Dumbledore and Voldemort respectively. Everyone else, even Mr. Potter himself, is on a very complex spectrum.

I am currently re-reading the series. I love these books so much.

Welcome to the fold Hector, it's never too late to enjoy a good book.


Minor spoilers follow Brownie, might want to skip this bit until you're done the series.






SPOILERS:

Snape is a prime example of this. Throughout the books, Snape does not once give in to evil, or betray Dumbledore's trust. He takes huge risks to save people's lives. However, he is a terrible teacher; he's biased and mean (though he is good at controlling the class).

But, he's also brilliant at his subject. He's probably one of the greatest experts in Potions in the wizarding world as well as being a brilliant wizard in general. These skills do not help him be a good teacher though.

He is also unbelievably vindictive, to the point where he does flirt with being evil (his actions in the Prisoner of Azkaban, for example), but this is because in some ways he's extremely immature. He, a grown man, nurses a grudge against a teenage boy. I mean, seriously Snape? Grow the heck up. But he's also very mature in other ways, like how he deals with everyone but Slytherins and the other teachers thinking that he's evil; he ignores it. But he can't ignore the antics of a Harry Potter, even though he's just a kid.

One of the most complex characters in the books. It's great stuff.

[inked]

Nurvi,

"And best of all, there is no obvious "good" or "evil". The only obvious good and evil characters are Dumbledore and Voldemort respectively. Everyone else, even Mr. Potter himself, is on a very complex spectrum."

I despair of you, Nurv. Really I do. To make a statement like that betrays how little understanding you actually have of the books.

Have you even read them all? I mean really, Dumbledore a "good guy" after the revelation of his feet of clay and misspent youth?!

Point to one good thing Voldie ever did.

Harry is shown developing a sense of right and wrong and good and evil, and occasionally makes egregious errors, but not ever does he consistently choose the evil/wrong/error.

Nurv, did you read the books? Did you pay attention?

Brownie, pay no attention to Nurv's erroneous readings!!!!! She is a Death-Eater in disguise trying to beguile you into the Voldie Camp of "there is only power and those afraid to use it". Nurv has missed the boat and fallen into the Slough of Despair!!!

Inked, on his 9th re-read of the books and with the posts on Entmoot to PROVE Beyond the Shadow of a Doubt that he has the longest record and claim to "overzealous reader of the books syndrome" waaaaayyyyyyyy before Hector even thought of reading them!)

...end of rant......for now.....

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

The characters are my favourite aspect of the books. No one is exactly as he appears. They're very real and layered.

I agree. Characters in HP are great, much more interesting and layered than in LOTR - *Gordis runs and hides*

The only obvious good and evil characters are Dumbledore and Voldemort respectively. Everyone else, even Mr. Potter himself, is on a very complex spectrum.

As Inked quite rightly pointed out, Dumbledore is far from perfect. Perhaps he is one of the most controversial guys out there. But for the accidental death of his sister, he could have turned out worse than Grindewald. And even after having turned wholly to "Good", he was still more interested in his little plots and scheming than in people around. It was so evident in the case of Harry, but there were other, worse mistakes.

For instance, I think Dumbledore had failed the young Tom Riddle miserably. He was the first of the "magical people" to find the boy, and all he did was to humiliate Tom, cutting off all the possibility to influence him positively afterwards. Dumbledore was quick to accuse and slow to understand what it must have been like for the very young, exceedingly proud and very powerful wizard to survive in this disgusting Muggle orphanage. I guess Tom was not the only one to steal there: it must have been common practice. Neither was Dumbledore interested to learn what the other children did or tried to do to him, making him retaliate with magic.
I wonder, perhaps at this time Dumbledore already knew that Tom was the last of the Gaunt family, descendant of hated Slytherins, that's why he was so unsympathetic from the start? Or was it his usual attitude?

Throughout the books, Snape does not once give in to evil, or betray Dumbledore's trust.

Well to start with, Snape had willingly joined the Death Eaters, even despite Lily's attempts to stop him. He had been genuinely attracted to Voldemort's ideas. But for Voldemort's hunt for the Potters, for Lily, he would have happily remained with the Dark Lord. Even had Voldemort spared Lily, Snape would have remained faithful to him.

He is also unbelievably vindictive, to the point where he does flirt with being evil (his actions in the Prisoner of Azkaban, for example), but this is because in some ways he's extremely immature. He, a grown man, nurses a grudge against a teenage boy. I mean, seriously Snape? Grow the heck up.

I don't think he flirts with being evil: he is evil enough by nature. It just so happens that he works for Dumbledore.
It would have been immature if Snape only hated James Potter for the pranks he and his pack of followers had played on him in school. But in fact he hated James for taking his Lily away from him, maybe also accusing him of Lily's death (had James not married Lily and got her with child, she would have been alive)- and that is an adult reason. Harry looked so much like James, but with Lily's eyes: seeing him every day must have been agony.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Well to start with, Snape had willingly joined the Death Eaters, even despite Lily's attempts to stop him. He had been genuinely attracted to Voldemort's ideas. But for Voldemort's hunt for the Potters, for Lily, he would have happily remained with the Dark Lord. Even had Voldemort spared Lily, Snape would have remained faithful to him.

I don't think he flirts with being evil: he is evil enough by nature. It just so happens that he works for Dumbledore.
It would have been immature if Snape only hated James Potter for the pranks he and his pack of followers had played on him in school. But in fact he hated James for taking his Lily away from him, maybe also accusing him of Lily's death (had James not married Lily and got her with child, she would have been alive)- and that is an adult reason. Harry looked so much like James, but with Lily's eyes: seeing him every day must have been agony.

Spot on! That's what I always felt. I was always amazed how people could like Snape when there was nothing to like...despite the whole "he was going on Dumbledore's orders" thing.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I was always amazed how people could like Snape when there was nothing to like...

Haven't you heard that evil is attractive?

Snape is just likeable without any logical reason, and movie-Snape doubly so.

Tomorrow I go see HBP!!!

[inked]

Frankly, there's plenty of evidence in the books that Snape is likeable enough to the Slytherins. He's always making jokes and he hands out favors to Slytherins. He trashes all the other houses. He's very knowledgable in potions and the dark arts. In fact, he seems ingratiating at times. Draco likes him well enough until the last bit when he's a Death Eater himself.

Unless you fail to realize the books are all told from Harry's perspective ... which might be a bit off-centre, don't you think? ... you have to ignore a lot about Snape to like.

[Gordis]

Snape favors Slytherins as much as Dumbledore favors Gryffindors. Let us face it: the Marauders should have been expelled, Fred and George as well, maybe also Harry and K.