Dante`s Inferno- what level are you in?

[Blackheart]

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

That's quite an assumption. But the point inconsequential, for I'm not arguing that utopia is possible. I was just pointing out that amazing challenges can still face mankind without war.

Conflict doesn't always mean war. When you go shopping, and you look for the lowest price, you are participating in a conflict based system of economics... you are in conflict with the grocer, who wants the highest return on his investment.

To avoid sounding overly sarcastic, I will merely point out that an awful lot of conflict free utopias have real difficulties with their economic systems...

I can see what you're saying, but I disagree that growth can only come from pain. Pain is one source of growth, a special kind of growth that can be very helpful and healthy. There are other ways of growing, however.

I disagree however. Growth involves change. Which means that something is going to be New, which means that it has to be adjusted to. You may not call it pain when it is at a level below a certain threshold, but it is the same stimulus. With repetition, the new situation becomes adapted to, and perhaps even sought after. But at that point, it is no longer growth...

When Newton's apocryphal apple fell on his head, he didn't say, "oh, the pain! I must learn." Rather, it was simple curiosity that drew him on. This is a common way of things. Curiosity is another stimulus for growth that you're forgetting. It's a very important one for young children also. When they build blocks and start artwork, pain is not the impetus for their learning.

Curiousity is a survival mechanism. It functions to allow humans to learn from other people's mistakes and the environment before they have to experience pain or death... Since once of it's primary benefits is to avoid pain and danger, I would point out that I don't consider it an effective contradiction...

Though I do consider it a more elegant and preferable method than mere response...

You can also point out the same thing about the human ability of foresight. It functions in much the same way as curiousity, allowing us to forsee future pain and danger, and thus avoid it...

Though I think you do have a valid point that pain serves a valuable role in people's lives by teaching them. It speeds up learning, I guess one could say.

Nothing solves a problem faster, or I might even venture more elegantly, than a genetic algorythm... though all that culling of the failed solutions is distressing...

I would ask a question though... Why do people "learn"?

not how... but Why... Why do they even have that ability?