Beorn's Powers

[Lief Erikson]

Those magical things which you mentioned as things of the powers of men, Afro elf, are all things. They are magical items, but that doesn't show magic within the natural abilities of men. Beorn's being a magician could be because of an ancestor having a relationship with a Maiar.

Simply because Gandalf says that he knew the spells of elves, men and orcs also doesn't necessarily show anything. There are never any orcs shown with magical powers, or men, besides Beorn. Gandalf knows these things because he is a wizard, and the reason that the powers work the way they do is because they are each from a different species. The magic is a part of the species, in a way, and because of his own immortality, Gandalf has access to them.



Well, this is one way of arguing that, anyway. I'm actually not sure, Afro elf, whether I believe your view or this one more .

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Good one, Afro-Elf! That's almost verbatim. Thanks! The actual quote was in LoTR, during the Council of Elrond when Gandalf was explaining why he didn't seek help from Radagast when that wizard told him about the Nazgul being abroad, but instead went to Saruman:

Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue . . .

As for magic among men, my impression from The Silmarillion was likely incorrect. One of the many good discussions of magic in Middle-Earth online that I've come across is at "The Scrolls of Orthanc": http://www.users.cts.com/king/e/erik...n/magictxt.htm (time out for a brief whine: it’s a good image there, but why do people often portray Galadriel as a hippy with her hair hanging down: she unbraided her tresses to cut off three hairs for Gimli, remember? <whine mode off>), an excerpt from Letter 131 http://www.users.cts.com/king/e/erik...en/lttr131.htm and Letter 155 in total, http://www.users.cts.com/king/e/erik...en/lttr155.htm , which makes some trenchant points on “magic.”

Under those criteria, Beorn certainly wasn’t magical (as his transformation wasn't for "immediacy: speed, reduction of labour, and reduction also to a minimum (or vanishing point) of the gap betweeen the idea or desire and the result or effect."). And likely he was a man, at least in the overall picture though he was certainly reminiscent of some sort of elemental force in The Hobbit. Since he did mention that he knew Radagast, had met him a few times before, and actually seemed to like him, I would suggest it was that “master of shapes” who either taught him or encouraged Beorn’s “inner bear” to come forth.

And maybe in Beorn's love of animals but unsociability towards the more humanoid peoples of M-E, we see a possible explanation of why Radagast may have failed?

[Artanis]

Tolkien says in one of his letters that 'Beorn was a man, though a bit of a magician', and that's enough for me.

Could he have learned skin-changing from Radagast? I doubt it. Radagast was a Maia, so his ability to take on a shape comes from his order, as something in his nature, and is not a skill to teach.

[Linarryl]

I think Beorn was born with the ability to turn into a bear. And Beren was Not able to turn into a wolf, but his friends were killed by one. Beorn comes from a dannish word 'bjorn' which means bear. Beorn probably was able to turn into a bear when he was quite young. He only eats honey and stuff like that.

[Dunadan]

Just re-read the chapter in Silmarillion: "Of Aule and Yavanna". This chapter concerns the creation of dwarves (by Aule) and ents (by Yavanna), the latter to protect the olvar (plants) of middle-earth.

Specifically, Yavanna "summoned many spirits from afar" to protect both olvar and kelvar (animals) alike. It strikes me that Beorn's powers are very similar to those one might ascribe to an "animal's ent", i.e. if you were to create a spirit which carries out the same role as ents but for animals, it would be much like Beorn.

So maybe that's where Beorn's powers come from.

Just a thought

cheers

d.

[SamwiseGamgee]

On the subject of Beorn, here's a really corny Beorn joke

Q: Why did Beorn always make sure to wear a belt?

A: Because he didn't want people to see his bear ass!

[afro-elf]

Originally posted by Artanis
Tolkien says in one of his letters that 'Beorn was a man, though a bit of a magician', and that's enough for me.

Me too.

[afro-elf]

Those magical things which you mentioned as things of the powers of men, Afro elf, are all things. They are magical items, but that doesn't show magic within the natural abilities of men


The Hillmen of Rhaudur (sp) became a sorcerous people and the above post.

Tolkien states that there is no difference in the "source" of the power but the intent of the power.

So men could use magic.