Beorn's Powers

[Finmandos12]

That's the second time its been wrong. It makes me sound like a fool...

[morkhon]

Yea, I read the Tolkien Bestiary recently and noticed alot of mistakes.

[webwizard333]

It definitately ran in the family, his descendants could change into bears, though not as strong as Beorn. I only wich they had maye had a role in the War of the Ring (in bear form the Witch King would't have stood a chance-not a man ).

[Ñólendil]

You're not to blame Finmandos. I don't own that book, but I do own the Encyclopedia of Middle-earth by Day, I used to consult it all the time when I became interested in Tolkien's works again. I tell you: it has a queer way of getting into your head and staying there. David Day doesn't try to expand upon what Tolkien's given us, he makes up anything he wants and sells it without warning, like an official guide and referrence book to the Lord of the Rings (and other works) or something. It's scary.

Although outdated, Robert Foster's Complete Guide to Middle-earth is more trustworthy. In fact I think it remains to this day the best source book. Christopher Tolkien used it frequently when he was working on Unfinished Tales.

Michael Martinez is coming out with a huge -- reportedly revolutionary -- Middle-earth history book. I don't remember what stage it's in at the moment, but I know he has an illustrator who's on the same page with him [no pun intended].

[Finmandos12]

Will it be an online guide?

[Ñólendil]

Not that I've heard. Maybe to buy online, but it'll be a regular book.

[easterlinge]

Maybe Beren taught his werewolf trick to some of his friends and relations? And Beorn's ancestors adapted the technique for bears.

[morkhon]

What werewolf trick? Beren did not, repeat, did not have the power to turn into a wolf. All werewolf's in Tolkien's works are evil, in fact wolves of all kinds seem to be evil. All Beren did was disguise himself as a werewolf by using a dead werewolf's hide when he snuck into Angband with Luthien to steal one of the Silmarills.

[The Eye of Fangorn]

Could Beorn be a forgotten maia? Maibe a child of a maia and a man. Even though it was not documented it might be true.

[Kyote Fields]

I just purchased "Tolkien:the illustrated encyclopedia." by David Day. Should I exsponge that one from my library as well?

[Ñólendil]

I don't remember him using a hide, I thought it was by the arts of Lúthien that he was disguised. Beorn was definitely a Man, this is stated in several places, in published works and outside them. He was a skin-changer, and a bit of a magician, but a Man. A Northman, in fact.

Kyote, yes, I would. I'd get your money back and buy something else. I suppose the Encyclopedia is enjoyable, but only profitable if you take it as someone else's world with striking similarities to Tolkien's. It's not very useful as a guide.

[Bantan]

From what I understand Beorn could change into a lot of things, he just liked being a bear or was cursed to change to a bear at certain times(like the Incredible Hulk)!

[Treebeard's apprentice]

I feel I need to dredge this topic up again because I'm curious.

1. Could Beorn take any shape he wanted?
2. If so, what was to stop him from taking over all the surrounding lands in the shape of a terrifying Nazgul? Granted, I think that would be out of character for him, but -- what if?!
3. What about size? Could he maybe take over all the surrounding lands in the shape of a super-sized squirrel or behemoth blackbird?

[azalea]

He could only take the shape of a bear. In case anyone didn't know, Beorn means bear in...some language. One could make the kind of sick assumption that a human mated with a bear, but I think it's just that he descended from a race of humans who had that close relationship to nature and who knows how they gained that ability? It does seem like there would be some Maiar element there. I don't remember what the consensus was on the thread where this was discussed, but I always thought he was descended from Beor, since the names are so similar, and I think the characteristics of Beor's people matched Beorn's.

[Lief Erikson]

I am pretty sure that he is a descendent of a union between a Maiar and a human for a few reasons.

One: What other option is there? He's no wizard, he's not a Valar, and he's certainly not related to Luthien, or some high elf from ages past that could change shape.

Two: The Maiar can change shape. Sauron was a Maia, and we see him change shape numerous times in the Silmarillion. He changed to a wolf to fight Huan, he changed to a fair and handsome man to deceive Numenor, and there might be others. Of course there is his final transformation to an Eye, as well.

This is the only race in Middle Earth that I think is shown as being able to accomplish such a transformation. Because Beorn was a man, and could only take on one shape, this shows that he is plainly not a Maiar of full powers. It is possible that the reason he is able to change into this one is because that one is related to his very nature. It might be that if he had offspring, male or female that had a different personality than him, they might be able to change into a different sort of creature. This would explain is ability to turn into a bear, but not into other creatures.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Beorn had to be a man, as he was short-lived -- Gimli or Gloin describe his sons running the "family business" not too long afterwards (makes one wonder who his wife was).

He was likely descended, not from the Edain but from some of the Men who did not cross into western Middle-Earth or who turned back shortly after they did; am not sure, but there might be a mention in The Silmarillion that some of these tribes practiced magic.

As to the shape-changing, could it be that he had learned it from Radagast, who lived nearby and was a master at it?

[Lief Erikson]

Where does it say that Radagast is a skin changer?

I never heard anything about any man using magic, unless it was through something else's power.

[The Lady of Ithilien]

Oh, this is driving me nuts! Somewhere (perhaps The Lord of the Rings), I definitely remember someone, possibly Gandalf, speaking of Radagast, saying something to the effect that, well, he is a "worthy wizard" and, among other things a "shape shifter" (rather than "skin changer") but he's just not up to doing the job at hand (whatever that is).

Tonight I just can't remember where or locate it. Sigh. Will keep at it and when I find it post the reference.

Surely Beorn's care for animals is similar to Radagast's.

As to the men doing magic, I'm not real sure about that -- it was just an impression I had after re-reading The Silmarillion recently. But I'll keep trying to locate that quote on Radagast. GRRRRR!

[afro-elf]

I never heard anything about any man using magic, unless it was through something else's power.

in tolkien's letters it says that Beorn was a bit of a magician but only a man.

outside of Moria Gandalf states that he knew the spells of Elves, Men,AND Orcs, for such a purpose

the Dunedain blades of the North

the walking sticks tha faramir gave frrodo and sam

these are all that I could think of now

[afro-elf]

LOI

I think it say that he is a master of shapes and hue