poster's LOTR alter egos

[Finmandos12]

What about me, Finmandos?

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
How about Amarie?

The poor gal! I had to look her up, she is mentioned in about three words in the Sil. Do you know anything else besides her relation to Finrod?

I´m sure you would be a great Amarie. For example she was smart enough to stay away from that little trip to Middle Earth...

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Kirinki54


The poor gal! I had to look her up, she is mentioned in about three words in the Sil. Do you know anything else besides her relation to Finrod?

I´m sure you would be a great Amarie. For example she was smart enough to stay away from that little trip to Middle Earth...

Actually, there is very little information about her. She and Finrod were in love in Valinor before the Exile. They would have been pretty young then, so we are given the impression that they were in love probably from childhood. Amarie was of the Vanyar, and of course, not permitted to join in the Exile, either because she was Vanyarin and few of them joined, or because she was still under parental control at that time, or both. Tolkien was very vague concerning her. In the HoMe though, she and Finrod are reunited in Valinor after his reembodyment. I believe that Michael Martinez said once that he believed that Gildor Inglorion may be the son of Finrod and Amarie, although I don't see how because Gildor tells Frodo that he is an Exile, which leads me to believe that he was part of the following of Finrod and Fingolfin when they crossed the ice. However, Gildor says he is of the house of Finarfin. Who knows?

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
However, Gildor says he is of the house of Finarfin. Who knows?

Well, he even says he is of the House of Finrod. And I know this has caused a lot of debate.

[Ñólendil]

How about Amarie?

--Sister Golden Hair

*boos and throws popcorn at Sister* Get over him, get a hobby, get something! *continues popcorn throwing*

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Kirinki54


Well, he even says he is of the House of Finrod. And I know this has caused a lot of debate.

I think at that time though Tolkien was refering to Finarfin as Finrod and Finrod Felagund was Inglor. So, Gildor is speaking of Finarfin. Right?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by Inoldonil

--Sister Golden Hair

*boos and throws popcorn at Sister* Get over him, get a hobby, get something! *continues popcorn throwing*

Inoldonil, this is my hobby. Calm down!

[arynetrek]

Originally posted by afro-elf
arynetrek

and where are the rest of the Elf Lords?

maybe they all went oversea

i guess they did - that's what i get for not posting for 6 months...

aryne *

[afro-elf]

arynetrek


I know who you are now.

GLORFINDEL

why because you are the only elf lord to return

[Ñólendil]

*throws more popcorn at Sister for good measure*

Concerning the 'Gildor Inglorion of the House of Finrod' passage, Tolkien changed 'Finrod' to 'Finarfin' in the Second Edition (though this change is not incorporated in other later editions, I guess it should be).

Michael Martinez touched on this in an article recently, I think it was his Finweans article.

'Inglorion' means 'son of Inglor'. Ofcourse when the passage was originally written (as Sister points out), Inglor was him who we know as Finrod (and Finrod was him who we know as Finarfin [still with us?]).

But now we know that Gildor was the son of Inglor, some unknown Elf of the House of Finarfin. So who was Inglor? Finarfin had four children: Finrod, Angrod, Aegnor and Galadriel (not Orodreth, Tolkien decided against this, his name was changed to Arothir and he became Angrod's son). Angrod's descent seems to be well recorded, Aegnor had no children, and if Gildor was descended from Galadriel I'll eat my shoe. That may not sound like a professional argument, but you don't want to see me eat my shoe. Or I don't want to eat my shoe. Don't make me eat my shoe! *leers*

So that leaves Finrod. It is said in Of Beren and Lúthien that Finrod returned to the Living and 'walks with his father' in Aman, or something very close to that. MM's theory is thus logically that Finrod and Amárië had a child after Finrod's return, or more than one. They could have had a child named Inglor, or Inglor could be their grandson. Either Inglor or Gildor or both could have returned to Middle-earth in the Second Age, before the Downfall of Númenor, but one thing is certain: Finrod was Inglor's son.

'Who was Inglor?' you ask? That's what this whole dang post was about, pay more attention.

[afro-elf]

but one thing is certain: Finrod was Inglor's son.

do you mean inglor was finrod's son


maybe inglor was a child of finrod and amarie BEFORE the exile.

gildor says he is an exile.

if he came later then he would not be an exile

[Ñólendil]

LOL! There goes the certainty. No, actually I meant: Gildor is Inglor's son.

Gildor would be an Exile, in a loose sense: he would be one of the people of the Exiles. All the Noldor who left Aman and came to Middle-earth called themselves the Etyañgoldi, or 'Exiled Noldor'. Gildor could very well say 'we are exiles', even if he himself had last left the Blessed Realm by permission.

On the other hand Gildor does not seem to hold the kind of sanctity possessed by Glorfindel. I would venture to guess that Gildor was born in Middle-earth, and that it was his father who had left Aman. On the third hand (if you are an ape), we do not see as much of Gildor as we do of Glorfindel.

maybe inglor was a child of finrod and amarie BEFORE the exile.

That's part of the problem, we know for sure that before his death Finrod had no children. Galadriel asked him why this should be, and that's when he had that dark forboding about him not having any Kingdom that a son should inherit, and that he would go into darkness because of an Oath. After which, the narrator explains that she whom he had loved was Amárië of the Vanyar, who had not been permitted to leave Aman.

[afro-elf]

Maybe finrod fooled around and gildor was the result?

[Sister Golden Hair]

Originally posted by afro-elf
Maybe finrod fooled around and gildor was the result?

No, not likely. Finrod was very devoted to his love for Amarie. Elves were not like that.

[afro-elf]

I another reason i think I would be an elf is that when I head back to school, it will be in recombinant gene technology (genetic engineering). I'll have 3 focuses. Only two are directly related to this thread though.

biogerontology: elves don't die from old age

immunology: elves don't get sick or catch diseases


maybe I can be an afro-elf after all.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Sister Golden Hair
I think at that time though Tolkien was refering to Finarfin as Finrod and Finrod Felagund was Inglor. So, Gildor is speaking of Finarfin. Right?

Right!
IMO sometimes Tolkien just forgot to alter the text at all places according to his change of mythos/plot.

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by afro-elf
arynetrek


I know who you are now.

GLORFINDEL

why because you are the only elf lord to return

I second that.

BTW is Arynetrek anything out of Tolkien (or constructed from his languages)?

[Kirinki54]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Don't make me eat my shoe!

Of course not!
We wouldn´t want you hobble around the forum with shoe-strings hanging out of your mouth!

[arynetrek]

Originally posted by Kirinki54


I second that.

BTW is Arynetrek anything out of Tolkien (or constructed from his languages)?

aryne is my name (not Tolkienian, don't really know where it's from), "trek" comes from star trek, my habit of wandering aimlessly as a way of meditation, my love for wanderer-type literary characters, & my general way of thinking.

so if i'm Glorfindel (thank you, BTW...) i'm going to have to kick Arwen's butt for stealign my place at the Ford...

aryne *

[afro-elf]

Maybe finrod fooled around and gildor was the result?

No, not likely. Finrod was very devoted to his love for Amarie. Elves were not like that.

if only humans were so noble