numenor = atlantis

[afro-elf]

I was always under the impression that numenor was tolkien's atlantis

i "BELIEVE" i saw something on mike martinez's suite 101 articles about a letter the Prof wrote about a reacurring dream about atlantis sinking

was it just the desert heat or was there really something about this letter?


isn't the quenya for numenor atlante?

also it was called andor the land of the gift

if you change the order of the letters you get the word 'doran' which is greek for gift

and we get the tale of of atlantis from ancient greece

[Wayfarer]

Yes.

Numenor is supposed to be Atlantis. (Atalante)
Tol Erresea is supposed to be Avalon. (Avallone)

At least originally. Middle Earth started out as a mythology of England.

In the interesting trivia department: did you know that when europeans first started exploring the north american continent, they discovered a settlement of caucasians called 'atalant', with people who called themselves 'atlanteans' and claimed to have come from the ocean?

[Legolas]

I also thought about this.
But "numenor" is a Quenyan word, meaning "westland" (numen = west, dor = land; numendor shortened abit and it is numenor).

[afro-elf]

yeah Avalon


where did you get that tale about the euro explorers?

[mirrille]

Yeah. The european explorers story is interesting.
When was this exploration taking place?

[CardenIAntauraNauco]

Originally posted by afro-elf

also it was called andor the land of the gift

and we get the tale of of atlantis from ancient greece

andor hmm thats "gates" in quenyan

[Ñólendil]

Andor doesn't mean 'gates'. It means 'Gift-land'. Anna + dor. I suppose it could also mean 'gates', as I just saw that 'gate' is ando.

[emplynx]

*knows hardly anything about atlantis, numenor, and elvish lingo*

[Michael Martinez]

Middle-earth was never a mythology for England. The mythology for England was The Book of Lost Tales, and much of its action took place in England. Middle-earth came along many years later.

Tolkien wrote on numerous occasions that he derived the story of Numenor's downfall from the Atlantis story. When he was young, he had a recurring dream about a huge wave sweeping across the ocean. He described the dream in The Lord of the Rings by having Faramir speak of having such a dream.

I don't recall where, but Tolkien does equate Avallone (the Elvish haven on Tol Eressea) with Avalon (from Arthurian romance).

[Wayfarer]

Excuse me, Micheal, But I seem to remember one of the older legenderaiums involving a protagonist who travelled back in time, mentally or physically, i can't remember, but he seemed to 'become' isildur, or elendil, or something like that, and then the view was from thier point of view.

Anyway, the one I'm thinking of had them going back in time to numenor/atlantis and witnessing it's destruction, then waking up...

So I equated that with time travel= feigned history.

[Michael Martinez]

Tolkien did write a time travel story about Numenor. I am having computer problems and probably won't be very responsive for a while.

[Ñólendil]

The story was The Lost Road. The idea was that a father and son travel back in time and continue to assume the lives of another father & son in history who bore names with the same meaning as theirs: Elf-friend and Blessed-friend. Most of the lives assumed are real historical lives, but in the last the meaning of the names are understood, and also the meaning of the exlamation 'Behold! The Eagles of the Lords of the West!' (or something like that, words said in each life). This last life (the earliest, chronologically) was the life of Númenor, the lives of Elendil and Herendil (not yet Amandil), while the Shadow falls on The Island. It's my favourite work of Tolkien's, unfinished as it is.

[Michael Martinez]

Thanks for posting that. I am hoping the computer will behave now, but only time will tell.

[Ñólendil]

Yep.

Those computers are tricky things. I'm rather crafty though. One time when the computer was giving me 'sauce' I fixed it all up with a good steel bat and a lot of cookies from my anger drive. I don't recommend that though, sometimes it's a bit too much for the monitor.[/lamejoke]

[Wayfarer]

Lovely things, computers. ]: )

I did have my home comp tuned well enough that it didn't trouble me (for the most part) and now my brethren have all got new games for christmas. It's seriously mucking up the system.

On top of that, I can't play DAOC.

The lost road, was it? I seem to remember it a bit better now. Must have been in the Unfinished Tales, eh?

[Michael Martinez]

So far, it seems to be behaving. I may be able to get some work done this week, after all.

[Ñólendil]

Shannon (I gave you back some of your dignity with the custom title, btw), The Lost Road has it's own volume in The History of Middle-earth. Or anyway the actual story is contained in Volume IV, The Lost Road And Other Writings. That's the book with the Etymologies at the end and the controversial comment about leaf-shaped ears. It wouldn't be so controversial if some folks would just open their eyes and realize the fact that 'The Shaping of Middle-earth' title is given to a book succeeding that of the Lost Road.

[Michael Martinez]

Ahem.

That would be volume V, not volume IV (which is The Shaping of Middle-earth).

[Ñólendil]

Wow. Wow, that really makes me look dumb, donnit? Hmm. I'm going to pretend not to notice that. Right. Uh huh. *furtively shuffles out of sight*

[Michael Martinez]

Originally posted by Inoldonil
Wow. Wow, that really makes me look dumb, donnit? Hmm. I'm going to pretend not to notice that. Right. Uh huh. *furtively shuffles out of sight*

Don't be ashamed. It was close, but you don't get no...cigar....