Greatest of the Edain

Maedhros · 01-28-2003, 10:15 AM

I have seen this topic elsewhere and I just wanted to see the opinions of the members here.
Who do you think is the Greatest of the Edain?
I would say that it had to be Húrin the Steadfast, not only he was the greatest warrior among Men, but he endured the Gaze of Morgoth himself and his tortures for over 28 years, withouth hope of release or rescue.

Arien the Maia · 01-28-2003, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maedhros
I have seen this topic elsewhere and I just wanted to see the opinions of the members here.
Who do you think is the Greatest of the Edain?
I would say that it had to be Húrin the Steadfast, not only he was the greatest warrior among Men, but he endured the Gaze of Morgoth himself and his tortures for over 28 years, withouth hope of release or rescue.

Hurin was a great man, but I think in the end my choice is either between Beren ad Turin. After all Beren did manage to win the hand of the most beautiful creature in Arda and with her help he did what even the Exiled Noldor couldn't do, and brought back a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. Turin on the other hand had to go through so much...and in the end he ended up marrying his sister and killing himself...okay so maybe he isn't that great! But he is till pretty heroic...killg a dragon and all!

Gwaimir Windgem · 01-28-2003, 10:27 AM

And the father of Dragons, no less!

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-28-2003, 10:43 AM

Has to be Hurin.

Maedhros · 01-28-2003, 11:10 AM

Quote:

but I think in the end my choice is either between Beren ad Túrin. After all Beren did manage to win the hand of the most beautiful creature in Arda and with her help he did what even the Exiled Noldor couldn't do, and brought back a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown. Túrin on the other hand had to go through so much...and in the end he ended up marrying his sister and killing himself...okay so maybe he isn't that great! But he is till pretty heroic...killing a dragon and all!

Beren is a pansy. When Sauron captured them and took of their disguises they were all afraid.
Húrin was captured in the Nirnaeth to allow the Hidden King to hide himself, and he took out the Troll guard of Gothmog.
From the Lays of Beleriand: The Second Version of the Children of Húrin

Quote:

Then Húrin answered, Hithlum's chieftain
his shining eyes with sheen of fire
in wrath were reddened: 'O ruinous one,
by fear unfettered I have fought thee long,
nor dread thee now, nor thy demon slaves,
fiends and phantoms, thou foe of Gods! '
His dark tresses, drenched and tangled,
that fell o'er his face he flung backward,
in the eye he looked of the evil Lord
since that day of dread to dare his glance
has no mortal Man had might of soul.
There the mind of Húrin in a mist of dark
neath gaze unfathomed groped and foundered,
yet his heart yielded not nor his haughty pride.

While his son Túrin a great warrior himself, was daunted by the eyes of a servant of Morgoth, Glaurung.

Artanis · 01-28-2003, 12:27 PM

What is the definition of great? To be fearless and strong? Or to know fear, and still have the courage to go forward to your doom? I rever more those who fall in the last category, so one point to Beren there. On the other hand, Beren was driven by his love to Luthien more than a wish to conquer Morgoth, while Hurin was acting on behalf of all people in Middle-Earth against Morgoth. One point to Hurin.

If I have to choose I would say Hurin. But it is a close race.

Arien the Maia · 01-28-2003, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artanis
What is the definition of great? To be fearless and strong? Or to know fear, and still have the courage to go forward to your doom? I rever more those who fall in the last category, so one point to Beren there. On the other hand, Beren was driven by his love to Luthien more than a wish to conquer Morgoth, while Hurin was acting on behalf of all people in Middle-Earth against Morgoth. One point to Hurin.

If I have to choose I would say Hurin. But it is a close race.

I guess I did overlook the fact that Beren was driven in his quest by the love of Lutien...still he was pretty courageous....Hurin was a great man as well.... I am not too familiar with HoME....hope to be soon

so I wasn't aware that Hurin went through so much

Lefty Scaevola · 01-28-2003, 01:20 PM

Tour was never perverted or tricked to evil purposes as were Hurin and Turin, but he had much better fortune in his life. He many year as an outlaw in the moutains of Mithrim do not compare with what Hurin endured before he partially succumbed to bitterness and foolishness (he well should had recognized he was being used by Morgoth). Beren was less able to stand up to Sauron, with much more hope than Hurin ever had, but never turned to bitterness . Overall I would have to say Hurin, Beren, then Tuor.
Turin is not even in the running for me, with his bloated ego and many time resulting bad behavior and ingratitude, and his self centered behavior at almost all turns.

Maedhros · 01-28-2003, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Beren was less able to stand up to Sauron, with much more hope than Hurin ever had, but never turned to bitterness . Overall I would have to say Hurin, Beren, then Tuor.

Well, maybe if Beren had been imprisioned for over 28 years with Morgoth, he would have suffered a worst fate than Húrin.

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-28-2003, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Beren is a pansy. When Sauron captured them and took of their disguises they were all afraid.

Maedhros, um, what the heck is that supposed to mean? Are you calling Finrod a pansy too? I hope not, because them is fighten words pal.

The Lady of Ithilien · 01-28-2003, 09:41 PM

Well, Elrond’s list, given during the Council, was:
Hador
Húrin
Túrin
Beren

Of these, Beren was the mightiest fighter and lover, but Hador of Dor-Lómin is my pick, “mightiest of the chieftains of the Dunedain” and “peer of Elven-lords,” with his people "mighty among the children of Ilúvatar in the youth of Mankind.” Also I like the Rohirrim, his descendants.

markedel · 01-28-2003, 10:49 PM

Beor, just for being so old.

Maedhros · 01-29-2003, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Of these, Beren was the mightiest fighter and lover, but Hador of Dor-Lómin is my pick, “mightiest of the chieftains of the Dunedain” and “peer of Elven-lords,” with his people "mighty among the children of Ilúvatar in the youth of Mankind.” Also I like the Rohirrim, his descendants.

Beren was a greater fighter than Húrin? Noopers.
From the Published Silmarillon: Of the Ruin of Doriath

Quote:

But it is said that Húrin would not live thereafter, being bereft of all purpose and desire, and cast himself at last into the western sea; and so ended the mightiest of the warriors of mortal Men.

And his might of soul was greater than that of Beren.
Húrin could have wavered, he had no real hope of escape, no elf would rescue him, he was captured in the Nirnaeth so that the the hidden King could hide again, he could have turned into a slave of Morgoth, under tortures he didn't gave an inch. He endured 28 years in those conditions.
While Beren was afraid when he was revealed to Sauron, and he wasn't even tortured yet. And we are actually comparing the two?
Amazing!

Quote:

Maedhros, um, what the heck is that supposed to mean? Are you calling Finrod a pansy too? I hope not, because them is fighten words pal.

Finrod is irrelevant in this thread because he's not an edain. But even he was afraid when Sauron discovered them, while Húrin persisted against Morgoth for 28 years. It makes you wonder a bit.

Maedhros · 01-29-2003, 12:45 AM

From the Lays of Beleriand:The Children of Húrin

Quote:

Then the Lord of Hell lying-hearted
to where Húrin hung hastened swiftly,
and the Balrogs about him brazen-handed
with flails of flame and forged iron
there laughed as they looked on his lonely woe;
but Bauglir said: 'O bravest of Men,
'tis fate unfitting for thus fellhanded
warrior warfain that to worthless friends
his sword he should sell, who seek no more
to free him from fetters or his fall avenge.
While shrinking in the shadows they shake fearful
in the hungry hills hiding outcast
their league belying, lurking faithless,
he by evil lot in everlasting
dungeons droopeth doomed to torment
and anguish endless. That thy arms unchained
I had fainer far should a falchion keen
or axe with edge eager flaming
wield in warfare where the wind bloweth
the banners of battle -- such a brand as might
in my sounding smithies on the smitten anvil
of glowing steel to glad thy soul
be forged and fashioned, yea, and fair harness
and mail unmatched -- than that marred with flails
my mercy waiving thou shouldst moan enchained
neath the brazen Balrogs' burning scourges:
who art worthy to win reward and honour
as a captain of arms when cloven is mail
and shields are shorn, when they shake the hosts
of their foes like fire in fell onset.
Lo! receive my service; forswear hatred,
ancient enmity thus ill-counselled --
I am a mild master who remembers well
his servants' deeds. A sword of terror
thy hand should hold, and a high lordship
as Bauglir's champion, chief of Balrogs,
to lead o'er the lands my loud armies,
whose royal array I already furnish;
on Turgon the troll (who turned to flight
and left thee alone, now leaguered fast
in waterless wastes and weary mountains)
my wrath to wreak, and on redhanded
robber-Gnomes, rebels, and roaming Elves,
that forlorn witless the Lord of the World
defy in their folly -- they shall feel my might.
I will bid men unbind thee, and thy body comfort!
Go follow their footsteps with fire and steel,
with thy sword go search their secret dwellings;
when in triumph victorious thou returnest hither,
I have hoards unthought-of' -- but Húrin Thalion
suffered no longer silent wordless;
through clenched teeth in clinging pain,
'O accursed king', cried unwavering,
'thy hopes build not so high, Bauglir;
no tool am I for thy treasons vile,
who tryst nor troth ever true holdest--
seek traitors elsewhere.'

Wayfarer · 01-29-2003, 01:13 AM

Hey, one handed man, lay off the small type, will you? It's getting on my nerves.

Falagar · 01-29-2003, 09:18 AM

Húrin was IMO the greatest man, because of most of of the reasons already mentioned.

Beleg Strongbow · 01-29-2003, 09:26 AM

I'm thinking Hurin.

Melkor's significant othe · 01-29-2003, 09:43 AM

Here's another vote for Hurin.......
Then Hador, Beren, Turin and Tuor in due order.

Inderjit Sanghera · 01-29-2003, 10:03 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Lady of Ithilien
[B]Well, Elrond’s list, given during the Council, was:
Hador
Húrin
Túrin
Beren

Of these, Beren was the mightiest fighter and lover,

Errr....no. Hurin is the migtiest fighter. And lover? Is there a reference to how good they were in bed?

***Sister Golden Hair*** · 01-29-2003, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Maedhros

Finrod is irrelevant in this thread because he's not an edain. But even he was afraid when Sauron discovered them, while Húrin persisted against Morgoth for 28 years. It makes you wonder a bit.

Well, you said that Beren and all of his companions were afraid, so you brought it into the thread. My take on this comparison is that yes, Beren and his companions were afraid because they knew their fate was to be mercilessly tortured and killed. I Hurin however did not face any ohysical torture or death. He was captured and made to watch the events of the curse laid upon him and his family unfold. However, I agree that was the greatest of the Edain.

01-28-2003, 10:15 AM	#1
Maedhros The Tall Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Formenos Posts: 578	Greatest of the Edain I have seen this topic elsewhere and I just wanted to see the opinions of the members here. Who do you think is the Greatest of the Edain? I would say that it had to be Húrin the Steadfast, not only he was the greatest warrior among Men, but he endured the Gaze of Morgoth himself and his tortures for over 28 years, withouth hope of release or rescue. __________________ “What does the term american refers to” asked the boy, and the wise man answered: “Lets look at the dictionary then.” As an adjective American is: 1. Of or relating to the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies, or the Western Hemisphere. As a noun American is: A native or inhabitant of America. A citizen of the United States. Then the boy asked, “What is America then?”, and the wise man looked at the dictionary again: 1. The United States. 2. also the A·mer·i·cas. The landmasses and islands of North America, Central America, and South America. Confused, the boy asked, “Does the term american refers solely to a us citizen or to any person in North, Central or South America?” The wise man replied: “What do you think?”, and the boy answered: “It is clear to me that while the term american is used to refers to us citizens, one can also use it to refer to any person who is from that continent too,” the boy thought for a while and asked the wise man, “Am I right?”, and he replied: “But of course.” The boy wondered, why is it that some people refuse to acknowledge the fact that the term american refers not only to US citizens but to anyone of the American continent?, but then sadly, the boy understood, that it is the calamity of ignorance.

01-28-2003, 10:27 AM	#3
Gwaimir Windgem Dread Mothy Lord and Halfwitted Apprentice Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA Posts: 10,820	And the father of Dragons, no less! __________________ Crux fidelis, inter omnes arbor una nobilis. Nulla talem silva profert, fronde, flore, germine. Dulce lignum, dulce clavo, dulce pondus sustinens. 'With a melon?' - Eric Idle

01-28-2003, 12:27 PM	#6
Artanis Greatest Elven woman of Aman Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Having way too much fun with Fëanor's 7 Posts: 4,285	What is the definition of great? To be fearless and strong? Or to know fear, and still have the courage to go forward to your doom? I rever more those who fall in the last category, so one point to Beren there. On the other hand, Beren was driven by his love to Luthien more than a wish to conquer Morgoth, while Hurin was acting on behalf of all people in Middle-Earth against Morgoth. One point to Hurin. If I have to choose I would say Hurin. But it is a close race. __________________ --Life is hard, and then we die.

01-28-2003, 01:20 PM	#8
Lefty Scaevola AngAdan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boerne, Texas Posts: 856	Tour was never perverted or tricked to evil purposes as were Hurin and Turin, but he had much better fortune in his life. He many year as an outlaw in the moutains of Mithrim do not compare with what Hurin endured before he partially succumbed to bitterness and foolishness (he well should had recognized he was being used by Morgoth). Beren was less able to stand up to Sauron, with much more hope than Hurin ever had, but never turned to bitterness . Overall I would have to say Hurin, Beren, then Tuor. Turin is not even in the running for me, with his bloated ego and many time resulting bad behavior and ingratitude, and his self centered behavior at almost all turns. __________________ Gaius Mucius Scaevola Older, richer, and wiser than you "Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, ... And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me,"

01-28-2003, 10:49 PM	#12
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Beor, just for being so old. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

01-28-2003, 10:43 AM	#4
Inderjit Sanghera Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England. Posts: 260	Has to be Hurin.

01-29-2003, 01:13 AM	#15
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	Hey, one handed man, lay off the small type, will you? It's getting on my nerves. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

01-29-2003, 09:18 AM	#16
Falagar Death of Mooters and [Entmoot] Internal Affairs Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 2,870	Húrin was IMO the greatest man, because of most of of the reasons already mentioned. __________________ Fëanor - Innocence incarnated Still, Aikanáro 'till the Last battle.

01-29-2003, 09:26 AM	#17
Beleg Strongbow Truest of Friends Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pennsylvania, but I have a vacation home in the Westfarthing. Posts: 520	I'm thinking Hurin. __________________ "...Beleg Strongbow, truest of friends, greatest in skill of all that harboured in the woods of Beleriand in the Elder Days..." Aure Entuleva! John Kerry for President!

01-29-2003, 09:43 AM	#18
Melkor's significant othe Hobbit Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: UK, Manchester Posts: 40	Here's another vote for Hurin....... Then Hador, Beren, Turin and Tuor in due order.

01-29-2003, 10:03 AM	#19
Inderjit Sanghera Elven Warrior Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England. Posts: 260	[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Lady of Ithilien [B]Well, Elrond’s list, given during the Council, was: Hador Húrin Túrin Beren Of these, Beren was the mightiest fighter and lover, Errr....no. Hurin is the migtiest fighter. And lover? Is there a reference to how good they were in bed?

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