Maeglin - Tragic hero?

[Morris]

I've been reading a lot about the Fall of Gondolin recently, and the more I do the more I find Maeglin to be one of the more interesting characters in the whole Silmarillion. He gets a bad rap because Tolkien foreshadows heavily that Maeglin is going to be the ruin of Gondolin, but I'm not sure he really deserves it. Maeglin lives in Gondolin for nearly 160 years without even a hint of treachery. He is Turgon's chosen regent during the Dagor NÃ*rnaeth Arnoediad and refuses in order to accompany Turgon into battle.

The Silmarillion says that Maeglin 'spoke ever against Tuor in the councils of the King...', but this was before Tuor had even become a rival for Idril's affections, so it seems unlikely to me that this could have been driven by malice. Maeglin is described as being 'wary', so it seems a lot more likely that he argued against Tuor in good faith, because abandoning the strongest and most secret fortress in Beleriand seemed like a bad idea.

Idril finds Maeglin's regard unpleasant because of their close relationship, but Idril also seems to be more foresightful even than is normal among the royalty of the Noldor and quite a bit of her dislike may be due to premonition of the role he will eventually play.

Given that Maeglin is laboring under the death-curse of his own father, as well as the Doom of Mandos, I have a hard time seeing him as anything other than a tragic hero in the vein of Beowulf or Hamlet. He is cursed by circumstances beyond his control and is doomed from the beginning through no real fault of his own.

This is more speculative on my part, but it would fit well with the story if Maeglin and Tuor had been friends initially. Both are orphans, both are strangers among those who are not quite their own kind, both are wise, insightful, and valiant. This would make the betrayal and hate all the stronger when Idril and Tuor fall in love, because it would be a very personal betrayal instead of just a loss of the object of his affection.

Am I the only one who likes this guy?

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by Morris

Am I the only one who likes this guy?

Maybe.

I usually draw parallels between Maeglin and Túrin. Both their youth started out pretty bad, with them finally growing up in a safer haven. Both are unlucky in love: Maeglin desires his cousin, Túrin marries his sister and neither of it ends particularly well, and this is twice a factor in their deaths. Both are cursed and end up causing the fall of a hidden Elven refuge. Both are capable, admired and proud which ultimatedly leads to their doom.

And I dislike both of them for being so pig-headed.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I hate to jump legends but he reminds me of Mordred.

[Belwen_of_nargothrond]

I have no compassion for Maeglin at all though the story of Eol and Aredhel does interest me somewhat.

[Curufin]

Maeglin is the only one of the Eldar who ever works hand in hand with Morgoth.

Hardly a hero, of any sort.

Not only does he remind me of Mordred (good analogy, DPR) but also of Judas.

[Earniel]

Except that both of those decided on their own to turn traitor, if I'm not mistaken. Maeglin was pushed into it. He may not have had any love for Tuor, and may have resented his marriage to Idril, but I doubt he'd purposefully turn against Turgon, his uncle, whom he held in high esteem.

[Curufin]

He was pushed into it, yes, but when Morgoth sent him back to Gondolin to do his part, he didn't rebel against it in the least.

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

I agree with Curufin. Maeglin wasn't said to be enthralled by Morgoth. They cut a deal and Maeglin stuck to that deal to the end in favor of loyalty to family and race. It was a conscious decision on his part. He could have feigned agreement with Morgoth in order to escape. He could have defied Morgoth as Hurin did. He did neither. He joined Morgoth and betrayed his people. He didn't love Idril; he merely wanted to possess her and become heir of the Noldor.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The Dread Pirate Roberts

I agree with Curufin. Maeglin wasn't said to be enthralled by Morgoth. They cut a deal and Maeglin stuck to that deal to the end in favor of loyalty to family and race. It was a conscious decision on his part. He could have feigned agreement with Morgoth in order to escape. He could have defied Morgoth as Hurin did. He did neither. He joined Morgoth and betrayed his people. He didn't love Idril; he merely wanted to possess her and become heir of the Noldor.

He was an Elvish Grima Wormtongue.

[Curufin]

Pfft. Elves and Men, no comparison.

[Earniel]

Well I never said Maeglin wasn't a two-timing weasel. I'm just saying that he didn't orginally chose to become a traitor until his life depended on it. That he gleefully continued his treachery when back safe in Gondolin is another matter, even if it doesn't make him look any better either.

Although it may be of note that in The Book of Lost Tales Morgoth didn't let him entirely of the hook:

Then Meglin was bidden fare home lest at his absence men suspect somewhat; but Melko wove about him the spell of bottomless dread, and he had thereafter neither joy nor quiet in his heart.

He didn't get away spell-free after all. At least in the earlier drafts, I reckon Tolkien later preferred a real treacherous weasel above someone who had no choice in the matter. Makes better drama, I suppose.

[Curufin]

Well, you could say that you always have a choice in the matter.

That choice may be death, but it's still a choice...

[The Dread Pirate Roberts]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Pfft. Elves and Men, no comparison.

That's for sure. Men rock!

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Curufin

Well, you could say that you always have a choice in the matter.

That choice may be death, but it's still a choice...

With guys like Morgoth death might be considered a blessing... There were fates far worse.

[Morris]

Well, we know that others have defied Morgoth, but they were all guys like Hurin; men or elves with no stain on their soul or secret desires. Maeglin had the Doom of Mandos and the death-curse of his father working against him, and his forbidden love for Idril would have given Morgoth a powerful hook into Maeglin's soul. We know how much power Sauron had to break and corrupt the will of mortals, even virtuous ones. Imagine what kind of power his master could bring to bear on someone's mind. I don't think Maeglin ever really had a chance, any more than Gollum did. Tolkien always makes his most interesting characters antagonists...

[Curufin]

Fëanor, however, also defied Morgoth, several times, including slamming a door in the guy's face, and he was far from perfect, and could certainly be said to have both 'a stain on his soul' and 'secret desires'. So I don't know that your explanation really excuses Maeglin for his actions.

[Earniel]

On the other hand Morgoth did have an significant influence on Fëanor. Fëanor ended up listening far more to Morgoth and even parroting some of his speeches than he realised. And Morgoth had had to be far more subtle about it under the watchful eyes of the Valar, than with Maeglin in his own fortress.

[Curufin]

All true.

But I think all that does is show some of Fëanor's insecurities - he believed Melkor's lies because there was a bit of him that wanted to believe them...

But despite everything, Fëanor never gave into him, and fought him to the point of his very death. Making Fëanor cooler than Maeglin.

[Morris]

Well, in fairness, Maeglin's submission to Morgoth caused the fall of one great elvish city, while Feanor's resistance to him caused the destruction of at least three. Feanor may not have submitted to Morgoth's will directly, but he was certainly corrupted by his influence and the results of that were catastrophic.

[Curufin]

Well, in fairness, Maeglin's submission to Morgoth caused the fall of one great elvish city, while Feanor's resistance to him caused the destruction of at least three.

Which three? If you're talking about Doriath, Nargothrond and Gondolin, the last two would never have existed in the first place without Fëanor, the fall of Nargothrond was completely due to Túrin's arrogance, and Maeglin was responsible for the fall of Gondolin. The fall of Doriath was at least as much due to Thingol's greed and xenophobia as it was anything to do with Fëanor or his sons.