Bombadil...theories? The Ring had no effect on him!

[Elfhelm]

Just bringing this to the top for "old scholar".

Tom was a character in a children's poem. After the success of the Hobbit, JRRT was asked for another book. He originally suggested a reworking of Tom Bombadil. The idea must have stayed with him while he developed the LotR.

The children's poem was inspired by a doll brought back from the Netherlands by an aunt and rescued for the youngest boy after the older boy (now a priest) attempted to flush it down a toilet (?). The doll had a blue coat and yellow boots. It's really a cool topic.

[Eärloth]

Goldberry described Bombadil with the words 'he is'; Bombadil described himself by saying that he had been since there had been hills and trees and streams...I can't really remember. So I'd say he was a subject born *of* the woods and the Earth, Goldberry the 'River-daughter'. Not quite Maiar, because the Ring would have effected him then. Not near human, he just...was.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by Elfhelm
Just bringing this to the top for "old scholar".

Tom was a character in a children's poem. After the success of the Hobbit, JRRT was asked for another book. He originally suggested a reworking of Tom Bombadil. The idea must have stayed with him while he developed the LotR.

The children's poem was inspired by a doll brought back from the Netherlands by an aunt and rescued for the youngest boy after the older boy (now a priest) attempted to flush it down a toilet (?). The doll had a blue coat and yellow boots. It's really a cool topic.

yes!!! the Doll Theory rules!! *laugh*

[brownjenkins]

I think we need to talk about Tom Bombadil more often.

[carlrodd]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

I think we need to talk about Tom Bombadil more often.

he is a great character. i used to reread the passage in the council of elrond about him over and over. middle earth role playing calls him a maia, and reinforces the idea that he was a shepherd of the woods that basically covered NW middle earth...the only remnants of which are fangorn and the old forest. he's so tied to the land though, that he would not leave the old forest.

[carlrodd]

double post

[Peter_20]

Tolkien himself has stated that Tom Bombadil is NOT Eru Ilúvatar, so that theory fails.

Tom Bombadil doesn't fit into the character of any race in Arda, and this makes him an extremely exciting character.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Eärloth

Not quite Maiar, because the Ring would have effected him then.

Where does it say that the Ring affects the maia? Sauron was living with the Ring happily ever after.
Even Gandalf, not the highest on maiar's hierarchy, at least two times was handling the Ring without any ill effect.

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by Olmer

Where does it say that the Ring affects the maia? Sauron was living with the Ring happily ever after.
Even Gandalf, not the highest on maiar's hierarchy, at least two times was handling the Ring without any ill effect.

There is no direct refference, but this can be inferred

Originally Posted by Shadow of the past, FotR

With that power I should have power too great and terrible. And over me the Ring would gain a power still greater and more deadly.

Originally Posted by Letter #192

Few others, possibly no others of [Frodo's] time, would have got so far.

Originally Posted by Letter #131

Also so great was the Ring's power of lust, that anyone who used it became mastered by it; it was beyond the strength of any will (even his own) to injure it, cast it away, or neglect it. So he thought. It was in any case on his finger.

Interesting about the last quote: no one actually had the guts to destroy the ring by free will; Tolkien comments on the letters that no human could have achieve the actual destruction of the ring - throwing it in the fires of Mount Doom. It seems Sauron was right. Judging from the temptation on Gandalf, and the fact that the ring gives power according to his possessor's stature, I believe it is safe to say that even uncloathed maiar are affected. These lot has been susceptible to power from the beginning anyway

[me9996]

It seems to me that Bombadil is not effected by the ring simply becuase the ring doesn't apply to him.

It has no hold over it, but he cannot use it (Any use beond decoration at least)

I beleave it is once said the Bambadil is not of Middle Earth...

[brownjenkins]

I stand by what I said in this thread many years ago...

Everyone from Frodo to Gandalf had something more they wanted to achieve... aspirations for the ring to work it's evil upon. TB was 100% satisfied with his life as is, so to him, the ring was no more than a band of gold.

Tom had no desires for the ring to work upon.

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

Tom had no desires for the ring to work upon.

Well, that is not entirely correct

Originally Posted by Letter #153

...the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are 'other' and wholly independent of the enquiring mind, a spirit coeval with the rational mind, and entirely unconcerned with 'doing' anything with the knowledge: Zoology and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture .

[brownjenkins]

Actually, that letter is what I based my statement upon, but I would bold a different part...

Originally Posted by Letter #153
...the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are 'other' and wholly independent of the enquiring mind, a spirit coeval with the rational mind, and entirely unconcerned with 'doing' anything with the knowledge: Zoology and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture.

When I say no "desires", I am speaking of the fact that he has no grand schemes he feels that he must do. He is more than happy being a botanist and doesn't desire to be a farmer. Thus, there is nothing for the ring to work upon, since observation requires nothing more than ones senses and ones mind.

[Landroval]

The desire in and of itself for knowledge is no less a desire than any other one. But I won't quibble on this anymore.

[The Gaffer]

Heh. I like your theory BJ. Tom is happy with this lot, and this makes him invulnerable.

[nokom]

Just an idea. He could be Eru? Since the ring doesn't effect him and he has always been .

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by nokom

Just an idea. He could be Eru? Since the ring doesn't effect him and he has always been .

Tolkien dismissed such an idea:

Originally Posted by Letter #153

{Peter Hastings cited the description of Bombadil by Goldberry: 'He is.' Hastings said that this seemed to imply that Bombadil was God.}
...
As for Tom Bombadil, I really do think you are being too serious, besides missing the point. (Again the words used are by Goldberry and Tom not me as a commentator).

[Butterbeer]

Did he though?

At what point?

Seems to me he did in a revisionist way.

I still think a form of that is implied , but in partial degree. Hence the mystery... and deliberate at that.

Read between the lines and a partial middle earth form or incarnation ,as it were, seems to me the best post-revisionist take...

best, BB

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by brownjenkins

When I say no "desires", I am speaking of the fact that he has no grand schemes he feels that he must do. He is more than happy being a botanist and doesn't desire to be a farmer. Thus, there is nothing for the ring to work upon, since observation requires nothing more than ones senses and ones mind.

I love this theory, Brownjenkins, it feels right. But then, Landroval has a good point, too, that the desire for knowledge is in and of itself a desire that can be worked upon. BUT - how could a desire for knowledge be a type of desire that the Ring could use? It isn't a desire for a concrete or tangible thing, just - knowledge. Hmm. I'm going to ponder this some more for a while.

By the way, I've been noticing what's happening around Entmoot these last couple weeks, and I'm absolutely loving it - suddenly, threads and talks around here about Tolkien-elated issues are outnumbering the gen mes religion/politics mind-numbing depressing totally-nothing-to-do-with-Tolkien threads. WHEW!!!!! It's about friggin' time. And the new & revived threads I've been seeing are so, so interesting, too. God it's great, bloody fantastic.

[Butterbeer]

God it's great, bloody fantastic.

... no need to bring GOD into it, eh?

..amen to that - or not?