Why have Merry and Pippin in the Fellowship?

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

Well then, let's consider some more quotes that may lend some understanding to the equation:

Gildor (Three is Company) “If you demand advice, I will for friendship’s sake give it... take such friends as are trusty and willing�

Merry (A Conspiracy Unmasked) “You can trust us to stick to you, through thick and thin – to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours – closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo.�

(Flight to the Ford) “[Frodo] saw his friends’ faces more clearly again, and a measure of new strength and hope returned.�

Theoden witnessing the reunion of the three hunters with Merry and Pippin (The Road to Isengard): “It cannot be doubted that we witness the meeting of dear friends... The days are fated to be filled with marvels.�

Treebeard referring to Merry & Pippin (The Voice of Saruman): “I shall miss them. We have become friends in so short a while that I think I must be getting hasty. They shall remain friends as long as leaves are renewed.�

Aragorn (The Steward & The King): “A day draws near that I have looked for in all the years of my manhood, and when it comes I would have my friends beside me.�

Gandalf to the Hobbits (Homeward Bound): “As for you my dear friends you will need no help. You are grown up now. Grown indeed very high; among the great you are, and I have no longer any fear at all for any of you.�

And last but not least ...

Elrond to the Fellowship: "The road must be trod, but it will be very hard. And neither strength nor wisdom will carry us far upon it. This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."

I think these quotes actually are spot on as to the reason behind Merry and Pippin joining the Fellowship. For all purposes of mere efficiency, speed and stealth Frodo would only have needed to travel with 1 to 2-3 other companions on his mission (Gandalf and Aragorn?). The fact that it was decided to have a much larger Fellowship is partly due to the politics between the races present at the Rivendell meeting, but also as a psychological aid to Frodo. This sort of dangerous, arduous and long-lasting mission can be compared to the polar expeditions made to the North and South poles. In the case of Roald Amundsen to the South Pole, and Fridtjof Nansens attempt to reach the North Pole, it was done with people they felt close to as friends, not only as co-professionals.. I think therefore that bringing Merry and Pippin along was done not only in foresight by Gandalf (in seeing future potential, much like Bilbo's thievish qualities in The Hobbit), but in the knowledge that friendship could play an important part in such a discouraging journey to Mount Doom. This is one the major themes in Tolkien's LOTR, the importance of friendship.

[EllethValatari]

Originally Posted by Glorfindel_of_Gondolin

So, apart from giving the story more hobbit material, why were Merry and Pippin apart of the fellowship?

Who would every ask such a question? Think about it: Merry and Pippin are the people who add something besides drama to the story! Whenever you're reading and you just have this inner craving for a little simple-minded stupidity, Merry and Pippin are there to help!

[Earniel]

Simple-minded stupidity? Is that all you see when reading about Merry's and Pippin's presence in the Fellowship? I hope not. The film, maybe, but certainly not the book.

[Bombadillo]

They're there to show that every person, no matter how small or insignificant, still has it in him to foster lots of growth and self-betterment.

Character development is rampant in LotR. In the beginning sure they're bumbling idiots, but they're soldiers by the end aren't they? More mature, independent, wise, headstrong, quick on their feet, hearty, literally taller... Pippin's not the type to go accidentally knocking stones into old wells anymore to make a long story short. Tolkien knew what's up. Their growth was more subtle than say, Frodo's or Theoden's, but they're not to be overlooked.

I mean, that's aside from the 9 vs 9 theory, which is okay too, if you really think Elrond and company expected a hobbit to go toe to toe with a witch-king and win.

They are so dearly simple, aren't they? Kids love' em!

[Attalus]

Not to speak of Merry's setting the Witch-King up for Eowyn to spit. "No other blade, though it be weilded by mightier hands..." and all that. And Pippin saved the Palantir, and Faramir, too. We do not know whether the Plantir's fall was marked by anyone else. Gandalf hints that he did, but it is not stated so.

[barrelrider110]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

Character development is rampant in LotR. In the beginning sure they're bumbling idiots, but they're soldiers by the end aren't they? More mature, independent, wise, headstrong, quick on their feet, hearty, literally taller... Pippin's not the type to go accidentally knocking stones into old wells anymore to make a long story short. Tolkien knew what's up. Their growth was more subtle than say, Frodo's or Theoden's, but they're not to be overlooked.

I mean, that's aside from the 9 vs 9 theory, which is okay too, if you really think Elrond and company expected a hobbit to go toe to toe with a witch-king and win.

They are so dearly simple, aren't they? Kids love' em!

They weren't bumbling idiots, even in the beginning. They were shrewd, loyal and brave. They deduced that Frodo intended to leave the Shire because of the ring. And they decided to accompany him, to leave home, knowing their lives would be at risk. Gandalf knew and argued for an out-of-the-box solution as the only way to defeat Sauron. Gandalf above all at the council of Elrond knew the virtues of the hobbits. And he knew the value of friendship and loyalty; Gildor hints at the same wisdom even before the coucil of Elrond-- the advice he begrudgingly gives Frodo -- "take with you those that are trusty and willing" or something like that.

[barrelrider110]

Originally Posted by Bombadillo

Character development is rampant in LotR. In the beginning sure they're bumbling idiots, but they're soldiers by the end aren't they? More mature, independent, wise, headstrong, quick on their feet, hearty, literally taller... Pippin's not the type to go accidentally knocking stones into old wells anymore to make a long story short. Tolkien knew what's up. Their growth was more subtle than say, Frodo's or Theoden's, but they're not to be overlooked.

I mean, that's aside from the 9 vs 9 theory, which is okay too, if you really think Elrond and company expected a hobbit to go toe to toe with a witch-king and win.

They are so dearly simple, aren't they? Kids love' em!

They weren't bumbling idiots, even in the beginning. They were shrewd, loyal and brave. They deduced that Frodo intended to leave the Shire because of the ring. And they decided to accompany him, to leave home, knowing their lives would be at risk. Gandalf knew and argued for an out-of-the-box solution as the only way to defeat Sauron. Gandalf above all at the council of Elrond knew the virtues of the hobbits. And he knew the value of friendship and loyalty; Gildor hints at the same wisdom even before the coucil of Elrond-- the advice he begrudgingly gives Frodo -- "take with you those that are trusty and willing" or something like that.

[Deagol]

I don't have the text in front of me but when I think of hobbits the first thing I remember is Gandalf saying "There is more about them than it would appear" (or something like that). Bilbo was able to actually give the ring away -- a thing no creature of any kind had ever been able to do -- and let us not forget that, ultimately, Frodo failed at the crucial moment. I like what a previous poster said about having spare hobbits along "just in case." It sounds a little Machiavellian, but it's worth noting that the council was well aware that the fellowship wasn't going storm the the Mountain of Fire with raised swords and a war cry.

[Alcuin]

I’ve been re-reading parts of Lord of the Rings, not in any particular order. There are several points at which Merry and Pippin make a tremendous difference in the storyline.

1. The Redemption of Boromir. I don’t agree with Olmer that the two hobbits were responsible for Boromir’s death. I do agree with Nurvingiel that Boromir was responsible for his own death. His attempt to seize the Ring from Frodo dispersed the Company of the Ring; it was Aragorn who commanded him (as Númenórean king?) to follow and protect Merry and Pippin; and Boromir confessed to Aragorn before he died his actions and revealed that Merry and Pippin were alive. Gandalf remarked that, “It was not in vain that the young hobbits came with us, if only for Boromir's sake.” (TT, “The White Rider”) In other words, Boromir’s redemption from self-aggrandizement, due to his falling to the temptation of the Ring, was bound up in sacrificing himself to protect those weaker than himself.
   
2. Arousing the Ents and saving Rohan. Saruman and Sauron were allies in close communication. They may have been unreliable allies who sought to betray and overcome one another, but they were allies. (Perhaps much like Hitler and Stalin in 1939-1940; but of course, there is no allegory in Tolkien’s work.) The seizure of Merry and Pippin and their journey to Isengard broke that alliance: Saruman betrayed Sauron, found no ring, and had no way to explain what had done after Wormtongue disposed of the palantÃ*r. More importantly, it put Merry and Pippin right on Treebeard’s doorstep. After explaining how Merry and Pippin were instrumental in the redemption of Boromir, Gandalf observed that (ibid.)

   The coming of the hobbits and the tidings that they brought have spilled [Treebeard's wrath]: it will soon be running like a flood; but its tide is turned against Saruman and the axes of Isengard. A thing is about to happen which has not happened since the Elder Days: the Ents are going to wake up and find that they are strong.

   Moreover, according to Gandalf in this same dialogue, Saruman’s assault on Rohan was predicated on his fear that Théoden “should come by [the Ring] and learn of its power”, so instead of a coordinated attack by both Sauron and Saruman upon Gondor and Rohan, the attacks fell upon them piecemeal, so that first the weaker could be defeated and then the stronger. Without Merry and Pippin, Saruman would have remained in alliance with Sauron, the Ents would not have gone to war, and Rohan would have been overrun. If that is not enough, Théoden, aroused from his torpor by Gandalf, kept his vows of alliance with Gondor, and in his train were Éowyn and Merry – who together slew the Witch-king! Finally, almost as an afterthought, the battles in Rohan cemented a friendship between Éomer and Aragorn, and Gimli settled in Helm’s Deep (Aglarond) after the war ended. (NB: ItalianLegolas made this point earlier in the thread with far less verbiage.)
   
3. Distracting Sauron and saving Gondor. Sauron knew Saruman had taken two hobbits. He did not know what had become of them, though he thought he knew when he saw Pippin in the palantÃ*r stolen from Gandalf. That focused his attention toward Isengard and away from his own land. Imagine his dismay finding the Heir of Isildur with the Sword of Elendil gazing back at him when Sauron stared into his palantÃ*r! Then Aragorn wrenched control of the Orthanc Stone and found the Umbar fleet approaching Lebennin. His decisive move through the Paths of the Dead overturned Sauron’s plans, saved Pelargir and Lebennin, and saved Minas Tirith! Then it enabled the Aragorn and Gandalf to keep Sauron’s mind firmly affixed on them and away from his real danger: Frodo and Sam.
   
4. Saving Faramir. Without Pippin, Denethor would have murdered Faramir in his madness. Faramir’s survival meant a clean transition of power from the Stewards to the restored High Kings.
   
5. Killing the Witch-king. Éowyn daughter of Éomund was “no man,” but without Merry’s stabbing the Witch-king with the barrow-blade, I don’t think she’d have killed him: he’d have killed her.

As for the last two items, as he carried the ailing Merry to the Houses of Healing, Gandalf said to Pippin, “if Elrond had not yielded to me, neither of you would have set out; and then far more grievous would the evils of this day have been.” (RotK, “The Houses of Healing”)

Not a bad set of accomplishments for two fellows whom Elrond feared “do not understand and cannot imagine what lies ahead,” but demanded to go along or be sent “home tied in a sack.” (FotR, “The Ring Goes South”) As barrelrider110 states, Merry and Pippin “were shrewd, loyal and brave.” Were they foolish? No doubt: but as Beruthiel's cat observes, we see nearly everything through the eyes of the hobbits, and so they serve as proxies for us, as Everyman in the narrative.

-|-

There is a great deal of discussion in this thread about planning and scheming and dark hints that Gandalf and the Eldar were involved in some nefarious plot to use Hobbits to overthrow Sauron. Piffle! say I; however, what guided Gandalf in particular, and to lesser extents the Eldar, Aragorn, Frodo, and Sam is not so easily dismissed. There is not a conspiracy, but Tolkien makes clear at many junctures that there is another Will, a guiding force that seeks for Good in Middle-earth. Gordis has already pointed this out. But for clarity, in the Appendix of “The Hunt for the Ring” in Unfinished Tales, we find this dialogue:

…[Gimli said]: “…Did you plan all this then, Gandalf? If not, why did you lead Thorin … to such an unlikely door? To find the Ring and bring it far away into the West for hiding, and then to choose the Ringbearer – and to restore the Mountain Kingdom as a mere deed by the way: was not that your design?”

Gandalf did not answer at once. He stood up, and looked out of the window, west, seawards; … He stood so a long while silent. But at last he turned to Gimli and said: “I do not know the answer. … In that far distant time I said to a small and frightened Hobbit: Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not its maker, and you therefore were meant to bear it. And I might have added: and I was meant guide you both to those points.

“To do that I used in my waking mind only such means as were allowed to me, doing what lay to my hand according to such reasons as I had. But what I knew in my heart, or knew before I stepped on these grey shores: that is another matter. Olórin I was in the West that is forgotten, and only to those who are there shall I speak openly.”

-|-

A final thought concerning Arwen and Frodo and his passage into the West. In a footnote to Letter 246, Tolkien writes,

[Arwen] could not … just transfer her ticket on the boat [to Frodo]…! For any except those of Elvish race ‘sailing West’ was not permitted, and any exception required ‘authority’, and she was not in direct communication with the Valar, especially not since her choice to become ‘mortal’. What is meant is that it was Arwen who first thought of sending Frodo into the West, and put in a plea for him to Gandalf…, and she used her own renunciation of the right to go West as an argument. … Her … plan have a certain equity of exchange. No doubt it was Gandalf who was the authority that accepted her plea. … He was … in special accord with CÃ*rdan…, who had … placed himself under Gandalf's command. Since Gandalf himself went on the Ship, there would be so to speak no trouble either at embarking or landing.

No doubt these last two points – whether a “conspiracy” existed to overthrow Sauron (the Mouth of Sauron declared there was!), and the nature of Frodo’s journey into the West – both deserve threads of their own. I added them to tie up what I saw as loose ends.

(And yes, I did read the whole thread.)

[GrayMouser]

There is a great deal of discussion in this thread about planning and scheming and dark hints that Gandalf and the Eldar were involved in some nefarious plot to use Hobbits to overthrow Sauron.

Umm, I think that all comes from Olmer who, facetiously or not, has adopted a deliberately contrarian view of the story.