Why have Merry and Pippin in the Fellowship?

[Olmer]

It was just a wishfull thinking. Nowhere said that he boarded the ship, if it were any ships left.
Even Frodo was permitted to sail on the ship because Arwen gave him a great gift: her ticket to ride (I guess it was a real deal:two hobbits counts as one elf, so Bilbo has got his seat too).
But who would give Sam the right to take a place instead an elf?
Who would remember him there to say that he allowed to go to the Blessed Realm?
Yes, Star, I agree, Sam has never left the Middle Earth.
Even if he said, or hinted to Elanor about his destination, he didn't go farther than the Grey Havens, and, as I suspect, spent his last days among the elves, of whom he used to be so fond.

[Butterbeer]

Hah!

Well, sure ... and in one sense i am with you.

But, to my mind, the implication was that he did take ship and go to the utmost West.

The fourth age was, later, to be, after all the age of EasyJet and the idea of two for one or even three for one deals, seems quite possible

Best, BB

[The Gaffer]

And who said that the Blessed Realm had a fixed number of places?

IMO, wearing the Ring, at all, ever, gets you an upgrade.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

And who said that the Blessed Realm had a fixed number of places?

Tolkien. By saying that Arwen gave her sit as a great gift. The ships were not made of rubber, you know, and the builders were depleting.

[Gordis]

I wonder: was the passage free?

[BeardofPants]

Do you think they had to buy 10-trip tickets?? *snork*

[The Gaffer]

There was certainly at least a two-for-one offer going.

And Gimli blagged his way on board by having the hots for Galadriel.

But anyway - Merry and Pippin...

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Gordis

I wonder: was the passage free?

I don't think so. Consider time, labor and material needed to build just one ship. The financial cost of such endeavor must be staggering, since none of the ships ever allowed to come back, and less and less elves, who knew how to build the ships, have remained in Havens.
So, somehow they have to have a reconstitution of their depleting funds, and the answer is - a fee for a voyage to the Paradise Island (and I did not mean Bahamas. )

As for Merry and Pippin, their place as Frodo's companions to the Mount Doom was anticipated from the beginning, when Gandalf insistently advised Frodo to take companions.
I think, from the beginning Gandalf's plan was to send just the hobbits on the Ring's destruction quest. But unexpectedly and uninvited the representatives from other races have turned up in Imladris. The issue of the Ruling Ring came out into the open, so Elrond and Gandalf were compelled to include the observers from the allies. Seems, you, Gordis, were quite on a target about this.

So, my point is: if Merry and Pippin would follow the partaking, designated for them by Gandalf, it wouldn't be too much of the leadership upon their arrival back home. But, as I said, it have happened against the best plans concotted by Gandalf.

[Gordis]

Ha, I know now why Elves lingered in ME for so long - they simply couldn't raise money for the ticket!

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Ha, I know now why Elves lingered in ME for so long - they simply couldn't raise money for the ticket!

Or simply the train was gone.

[mithrand1r]

Originally Posted by Olmer

Or simply the train was gone.

The elves should have headed the words of Davey the elf: "Take the last train to Clarksville. . .


Gordis,
That may explain the desire (or need) for mithril. Its value should be enough for at least 2 tickets in thrid class baggage.

Regarding Merry and Pippin,

It was said that someone of intelligence was needed for the journey. What better way to demonstrate this intelligence (making it stick out in the crowd) than by pairing it with others of less intelligence.


On a more serious note, sometimes it does not matter what skills we have at the beginning. It sometimes is more important to have an intrinsic motivation for working towards a goal.

Merry and Pippin would do what they could for their friendship of Sam and Frodo. They might dare where one with more common sense might be more restrained or cautious. They have a inner motivation to do what they could to help Frodo and Sam that will not waiver when times are rough. (Not saying that the others would desert the quest, but each member of the fellowship has their own motivation for being part of the fellowship.)

This might be part of the reasoning behind Gandalf's words about including them into the fellowship.

[Gordis]

'Tis simple: Bilbo&Frodo sold their mithril shirt - thus they bought 3 class tickets to Paradise Island. Pip and Merry were not so fortunate. I guess Sam never made it to Valinor.

[Star]

okay someone said that pip didn't light the beacons of gondor in the books, but its a movie wise point.

[Star]

Originally Posted by Gordis

It is in LOTR Appendices.

oh....i skipped that part. it was a libary book that had to be returned the next day. only enough time to read a little.

[Jon S.]

Had someone else other than Merry and Pippin been chosen, we'd still be here debating the same exact issue, the only difference being the thread title would have their names in it instead of the Hobbits.

[Olmer]

Originally Posted by Jon S.

Had someone else other than Merry and Pippin been chosen, we'd still be here debating the same exact issue, the only difference being the thread title would have their names in it instead of the Hobbits.

Exactly! And we would look for a logical explanation of such choosing, as we are doing now.
The only problem is: in Merry & Pippin case it's no logic, just words of Gandalf about theirs strong friendship ties. Maybe for perplexed Frodo it sounded as a good motivation, but for an outsider it doesn't sound convincing enough. Should be some other agenda behind this decision.
The answer came from Bilbo:”Dear me! Not the Gandalf who was responsible for so many quiet lads and lasses going off into the Blue for mad adventures.”(“The Hobbit”, chapter I)
So it was not for the first time he was using hobbits. Why hobbits? Because not like man, elves of dwarwes, they were gullible, thus susceptible to any influence for “modification”. They will do as been told, and between 3 of them will finish what Frodo wouldn't able to do himself.

[Jon S.]

Well then, let's consider some more quotes that may lend some understanding to the equation:

Gildor (Three is Company) “If you demand advice, I will for friendship’s sake give it... take such friends as are trusty and willing”

Merry (A Conspiracy Unmasked) “You can trust us to stick to you, through thick and thin – to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours – closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo.”

(Flight to the Ford) “[Frodo] saw his friends’ faces more clearly again, and a measure of new strength and hope returned.”

Theoden witnessing the reunion of the three hunters with Merry and Pippin (The Road to Isengard): “It cannot be doubted that we witness the meeting of dear friends... The days are fated to be filled with marvels.”

Treebeard referring to Merry & Pippin (The Voice of Saruman): “I shall miss them. We have become friends in so short a while that I think I must be getting hasty. They shall remain friends as long as leaves are renewed.”

Aragorn (The Steward & The King): “A day draws near that I have looked for in all the years of my manhood, and when it comes I would have my friends beside me.”

Gandalf to the Hobbits (Homeward Bound): “As for you my dear friends you will need no help. You are grown up now. Grown indeed very high; among the great you are, and I have no longer any fear at all for any of you.”

And last but not least ...

Elrond to the Fellowship: "The road must be trod, but it will be very hard. And neither strength nor wisdom will carry us far upon it. This quest may be attempted by the weak with as much hope as the strong. Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."

[Noble Elf Lord]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Ha, I know now why Elves lingered in ME for so long - they simply couldn't raise money for the ticket!

Please don´t joke, it´s a sad matter...

[Jon S.]

Exactly and laughter is the best medicine.

[Noble Elf Lord]

When I grief, I do it properly - the Garfield way, not even trying to feel better, until I actually forget to grief.