The End

fungilorde · 02-01-2002, 08:05 AM

In UT there is a poem about the end of the world. Is anything said about this (as a proper story) in any book that you know? When I have at least 5 replies, and all of them say no I will attempt to write a story, based on the poem in UT. (I will send 1 part a day).

Legolas_BowKing · 02-01-2002, 08:31 PM

Ñólendil · 02-01-2002, 09:38 PM

I didn't even know there was a story in there about the end of the world. Where is it?

Captain Stern · 02-01-2002, 09:42 PM

I don't know whether it's in Unfinished Tales or not, maybe he's refering to the Dagor Dagorath?

The White Rider · 02-14-2002, 12:34 PM

Sorry, Fungilorde. No idea.

Comic Book Guy · 02-14-2002, 02:55 PM

Are you refering to the note on Mando's Second Prophecy? If so, it is about the end of Arda, when Morgoth will return and Destroy the sun and the Moon, then the forces of Manwe shall fight back, then Melkor will be struck by Turins sword and shall have his last defeat, then Arda will be made anew, this battle is called Dagor Darograth, the Last Battle.

markedel · 02-14-2002, 08:28 PM

I think it's floating around in the history of middle earth series somewhere. Look in the early ones or Morgoth's ring/War of the Jewels. I've read neither but I'm sure Tolkien wrote at least a partial version.

Findegil · 02-15-2002, 10:45 AM

It is in the early ones. The Book of Lost Tales Part 1 & 2 you will find their some scattered prophecies about the Last End of Arda. It is a littel bit hard to give a short compendium of all that is said but I will try (Don't take me word by word, it is out of memory). At last you had to decied for your self what of this things could have been survived until the time of The Lord of the Rings:

- It is said that the Elves of Tol Eressea will try to rescue their fellows that still linger in Middel-Earth. If they will have the help of Men they will go with them in company back to Valinor. (They are some hints that this will be by way through Arvelin.)

- The streets of Valionr will be full of the Men in this days.

- Melkor will find a way to puch the sun and moon thrught the door of night an destroy the door, so that both will be lost outside, while he will return to Arda.

- The sword of Telimektar (Stars of Orion-nebula) will take a red color as a signe for Melkors return.

- The Last Battle will be faught on the plains of Valinor and Turin Turambar will join in the fight against Morgoth himself. He will stand right hand of Tulkas. His black sword will deal the final death to Morgotrh and take revenge for the house of Hurin.

- Fionwe [Eonwe] will be in great rage about the loss of the sun because of ?Arie? the stearwoman of the sun. He will be on the left hand of Tulkas in the last fight. And his rage will lead to the destruction of the Arda (which is necessary for the the destruction of Melkor).

- If you take the poem in The Unfinished Tales Manwe will be present in this fight.

- The Trees will be recindled.

Now I collect some hints out of different surces which I don't remember exactly in position:

- After that the world will be rebuild (Arda-remade or Arda-healed). It will be the place for the elves to inhabit.

- The Song of the world will be played again before Eru, with the singing of Men added. and anyboddy will sing right trhis time.

- The dwarves will help Aule in rebuilding Arda.

That all I remeber in the moment, but their could be much more.

Regrads
Findegil

Captain Stern · 02-15-2002, 11:13 AM

Yes, that's the Dagor Dagorath.

Come on Inoldonil or who ever, shed some light on the subject!

I managed to find a piece of the text on Michael Martinez's forum, here it is:

31 Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor, and the rumour of his words was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and Moon. But Eärendel shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Fionwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged.
Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendel shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavnna Palúrien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the Light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Túrin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar.

markedel · 02-15-2002, 01:55 PM

Wasn't it tuor and not turin?

He became Noldori, is linked to Ulmo etc. I'll have to go check my UFT

Ñólendil · 02-17-2002, 06:11 PM

*waves* I am Inoldonil, I have no light to shed, Captain. I'll only say any prophesy about the end of the world in The Book of Lost Tales is about the end of a very different world from that seen in The Silmarillion.

02-01-2002, 08:05 AM	#1
fungilorde Sapling Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 13	The End In UT there is a poem about the end of the world. Is anything said about this (as a proper story) in any book that you know? When I have at least 5 replies, and all of them say no I will attempt to write a story, based on the poem in UT. (I will send 1 part a day).

02-01-2002, 09:38 PM	#3
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	I didn't even know there was a story in there about the end of the world. Where is it? __________________ Falmon -- Dylan

02-01-2002, 09:42 PM	#4
Captain Stern Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 319	RE: The End I don't know whether it's in Unfinished Tales or not, maybe he's refering to the Dagor Dagorath? __________________ Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä.

02-14-2002, 12:34 PM	#5
The White Rider Hobbit Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Somewhere in the name of Arda Posts: 23	Sorry, Fungilorde. No idea. __________________ Guiding everyone I can see... Straight to doom except for me.

02-14-2002, 08:28 PM	#7
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	I think it's floating around in the history of middle earth series somewhere. Look in the early ones or Morgoth's ring/War of the Jewels. I've read neither but I'm sure Tolkien wrote at least a partial version. __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

02-01-2002, 08:31 PM	#2
Legolas_BowKing Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 115	No

02-14-2002, 02:55 PM	#6
Comic Book Guy Best Ex-Administrator ever Join Date: May 2001 Location: Ireland Posts: 60,547	Are you refering to the note on Mando's Second Prophecy? If so, it is about the end of Arda, when Morgoth will return and Destroy the sun and the Moon, then the forces of Manwe shall fight back, then Melkor will be struck by Turins sword and shall have his last defeat, then Arda will be made anew, this battle is called Dagor Darograth, the Last Battle.

02-15-2002, 10:45 AM	#8
Findegil Elven Warrior Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Geilenkirchen, Germany Posts: 192	It is in the early ones. The Book of Lost Tales Part 1 & 2 you will find their some scattered prophecies about the Last End of Arda. It is a littel bit hard to give a short compendium of all that is said but I will try (Don't take me word by word, it is out of memory). At last you had to decied for your self what of this things could have been survived until the time of The Lord of the Rings: - It is said that the Elves of Tol Eressea will try to rescue their fellows that still linger in Middel-Earth. If they will have the help of Men they will go with them in company back to Valinor. (They are some hints that this will be by way through Arvelin.) - The streets of Valionr will be full of the Men in this days. - Melkor will find a way to puch the sun and moon thrught the door of night an destroy the door, so that both will be lost outside, while he will return to Arda. - The sword of Telimektar (Stars of Orion-nebula) will take a red color as a signe for Melkors return. - The Last Battle will be faught on the plains of Valinor and Turin Turambar will join in the fight against Morgoth himself. He will stand right hand of Tulkas. His black sword will deal the final death to Morgotrh and take revenge for the house of Hurin. - Fionwe [Eonwe] will be in great rage about the loss of the sun because of ?Arie? the stearwoman of the sun. He will be on the left hand of Tulkas in the last fight. And his rage will lead to the destruction of the Arda (which is necessary for the the destruction of Melkor). - If you take the poem in The Unfinished Tales Manwe will be present in this fight. - The Trees will be recindled. Now I collect some hints out of different surces which I don't remember exactly in position: - After that the world will be rebuild (Arda-remade or Arda-healed). It will be the place for the elves to inhabit. - The Song of the world will be played again before Eru, with the singing of Men added. and anyboddy will sing right trhis time. - The dwarves will help Aule in rebuilding Arda. That all I remeber in the moment, but their could be much more. Regrads Findegil

02-15-2002, 11:13 AM	#9
Captain Stern Elven Warrior Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 319	RE: The End Yes, that's the Dagor Dagorath. Come on Inoldonil or who ever, shed some light on the subject! I managed to find a piece of the text on Michael Martinez's forum, here it is: 31 Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the Gods sat in judgement in Valinor, and the rumour of his words was whispered among all the Elves of the West. When the world is old and the Powers grow weary, then Morgoth, seeing that the guard sleepeth, shall come back through the Door of Night out of the Timeless Void; and he shall destroy the Sun and Moon. But Eärendel shall descend upon him as a white and searing flame and drive him from the airs. Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Fionwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, coming from the halls of Mandos; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged. Thereafter shall Earth be broken and re-made, and the Silmarils shall be recovered out of Air and Earth and Sea; for Eärendel shall descend and surrender that flame which he hath had in keeping. Then Fëanor shall take the Three Jewels and bear them to Yavnna Palúrien; and she will break them and with their fire rekindle the Two Trees, and a great light shall come forth. And the Mountains of Valinor shall be levelled, so that the Light shall go out over all the world. In that light the Gods will grow young again, and the Elves awake and all their dead arise, and the purpose of Ilúvatar be fulfilled concerning them. But of Men in that day the prophecy of Mandos doth not speak, and no Man it names, save Túrin only, and to him a place is given among the sons of the Valar. __________________ Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying 'Get thee gone from my gate, thou jail-crow of Mandos!' And he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all dwellers in Eä.

02-15-2002, 01:55 PM	#10
markedel 'Sober' Mullet Frosh Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Queen's Posts: 1,245	Wasn't it tuor and not turin? He became Noldori, is linked to Ulmo etc. I'll have to go check my UFT __________________ "Earnur was a man like his father in valour, but not in wisdom"

02-17-2002, 06:11 PM	#11
Ñólendil Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: California Posts: 60,865	waves I am Inoldonil, I have no light to shed, Captain. I'll only say any prophesy about the end of the world in The Book of Lost Tales is about the end of a very different world from that seen in The Silmarillion. __________________ Falmon -- Dylan