Who is Gollum Talking to?

gandalffan2525 · 11-20-2002, 06:50 PM

When Bilbo meets gollum the Hobbit says that "Gollum always referd to him self as 'My Precious'" but in FotR the general consencious seems to be that Gollum was talking to the Ring

this has always bothered me

Agburanar · 11-21-2002, 06:48 AM

Yes, that's true. I always thought it was the ring, or perhaps The Ring! Because the Hobbit was written for children, or perhaps because Tolkien himself wasn't completely sure when he wrote it that Gollum's ring was The Ring (

) then that's why the inaccuracy pops up. Or perhaps Gollum is more the ring himself when he has it and that's why he calls himself 'my precious'.

Miranda · 11-22-2002, 06:01 PM

I reckon its Gollum's split personality, as if Gollum was talking to Smeagol or vice versa. Maybe when he has the Ring he speaks to Smeagol as Gollum as Gollum is the Ring (does that make sense

DOH!) But in TTT he refers to himself as Smeagol when he doesn't have the Ring and so is no longer a split personality. I think the Ring talks through Gollum in a way, it takes him over like ghost are said to do with mediums. Oh give up Mimi you're not making any sense as usual- *smack myself round the head with a pillow to try and make train of thoughts clearer*- nah! not working. Mx

Spock · 11-24-2002, 02:47 PM

Yes to all. Gollum speaks often in the third person. "My Precious" is mostly used describing what the Ring is; as in "we wants it my precious" he's speaking of that which he wants and not to any individual.

Duddun · 11-25-2002, 08:08 PM

Well, unless he changed The Hobbit after writing LotR, it says in the hobbit that it was the Ring Of Power.

cassiopeia · 11-26-2002, 01:24 AM

Tolkien wrote the Hobbit years before he wrote The Lord of the Rings. I don't think he thought the ring was particularily special when he wrote the Hobbit. I always thought Gollum was talking to the ring. Gollum hated himself, I find it hard to believe he referred to himself as 'precious'.

iowyth · 11-26-2002, 05:44 AM

One will always find inconsistencies between the hobbit and The Lord of the Rings because Tolkien wrote the Hobbit with no idea that it was going to become the forerunner to a great epic of his imaginary world. He actually went back and changed one chapter at the time he wrote LotR in order to get rid of one of these problems.
Trying to sort of Gollums self image is an even more difficult problem. He was a bit of a nut, don't you agree? ;-)

gandalffan2525 · 12-03-2002, 04:48 PM

absolutly! but thats whats so great about him!

thanks for all the info!

Duddun · 12-04-2002, 10:30 PM

Quote:

He actually went back and changed one chapter at the time he wrote LotR in order to get rid of one of these problems.

Oh, that answers my statement.

Blackboar · 12-13-2002, 01:40 PM

Thats always bothered me!!

Falagar · 12-13-2002, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Gollum hated himself, I find it hard to believe he referred to himself as 'precious'.

LotR:

Quote:

...Gollum hates and loves the Ring as he hates and loves himself....

(This quote is taken directly out of my mind, but I seem to remember Gandalf saying something like that in either RotK or FotR)

cassiopeia · 12-16-2002, 10:39 PM

I just found a part in the History of the Lord of the Rings (The War of the Ring) where it says when "Precious" had a capital P, Gollum was referring to the ring, but when it says "precious' with a lower case p, Gollum is referring to himself. Check this in the LOTR, see especially the chapter "The Taming of Smeagol".

SamwiseGamgeeOTS · 04-24-2003, 11:15 AM

Dude.......i never even noticed that b4.....wow. that's weird....

Wayfarer · 04-24-2003, 07:00 PM

The ring had long since begun to submerge Smeagol's personality- he was almost completely consumed by it, and so it is possible that he was talking to both the ring /and/ himself; the ring having overriden his mind in order to reduce him to the state where he was little more than its puppet.

Lanelf · 05-01-2003, 09:37 PM

I thought it was Gollum talking to Smeagol or vice versa, or w/e. Tho I guess he coulda been talking to the ring, or The Ring. Heck, he could have been talking to rotting fish skeleton by his feet! I don't know.

Lanelf.

durin's bane · 05-04-2003, 08:39 PM

I think Gollum was talking to the Ring, though when Tolkien wrote the Hobbit, he wasn't really sure of the ring was going to be The Ring. Maybe when he has the Ring, he thinks he's the Ring, because in The Two Towers, he didn't have it, and he always called himself by his real name. Maybe it's only when the Ring's in his posession.

Baby-K · 05-06-2003, 02:11 AM

I believe in The Hobbit the focus was more on Gollum and the abstract 'creature' he was. He was speaking to himself because he had no other company & in his mind he might have been two people (Gollum & Smeagol). In LotR he was no longer alone in the dark, but because he had been for so long his social skills had been diminished to nothing & he found it difficult to relate / speak to others, thus he spoke to the ring - it was the only thing he really knew & felt comfortable with. (That's my early morning, pre-only-cup-of-coffee-for-the-day thoughts anyway).

Perhaps the ring represented something tangible to Gollum of that which he had once been, but lost (i. e Smeagol) because as soon as he no longer has the ring in his posession he is able to communicate better & also refers to himself by his real name.

Could also be that Gollum was schitzo....

Psycho Kitty · 05-06-2003, 10:44 AM

no i dont think he was just schitzo. and i think the ring was basically alive to him. it had a very real living presence to him. i mean it was part of sauron after all. a big part. so it was a living evil really and it held power over him and communicated with him in its way. and gollum came to see it as a part of him. which is why he called it/him my precious. i think it effected everyone like this not just gollum. there are parts in the book where bilbo is talking to himself about things like when hes going into smaugs chamber but he does it in a normal way like you and i might if we are nervous. but you can see how it can go from that to where gollum is after hundreds of years of influence by the presence of the ring.

11-20-2002, 06:50 PM	#1
gandalffan2525 Enting Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: mentally or physically? Posts: 64	Who is Gollum Talking to? When Bilbo meets gollum the Hobbit says that "Gollum always referd to him self as 'My Precious'" but in FotR the general consencious seems to be that Gollum was talking to the Ring this has always bothered me __________________ Never under estamate the power of stupid people in large groups. *************************** I AM,Malpan ************************ Who is X? ************************* click here-->Dagorhir! *************************** "I will personally strangle the next person who refers to ents as 'those talking tree things'"

11-21-2002, 06:48 AM	#2
Agburanar Elf Lord Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dorset Posts: 608	Yes, that's true. I always thought it was the ring, or perhaps The Ring! Because the Hobbit was written for children, or perhaps because Tolkien himself wasn't completely sure when he wrote it that Gollum's ring was The Ring ( ) then that's why the inaccuracy pops up. Or perhaps Gollum is more the ring himself when he has it and that's why he calls himself 'my precious'. __________________ I would wish, were it to any avail, that the LORD OF THE RINGS FILMS had never been wrought. ROLLING STOCK, WE'RE ROLLING STOCK!!

11-24-2002, 02:47 PM	#4
Spock An enigma in a conundrum Join Date: Oct 1999 Posts: 6,476	Yes to all. Gollum speaks often in the third person. "My Precious" is mostly used describing what the Ring is; as in "we wants it my precious" he's speaking of that which he wants and not to any individual. __________________ Vizzini: "HE DIDN'T FALL?! INCONCEIVABLE!!" Inigo: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

11-25-2002, 08:08 PM	#5
Duddun I Antha Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: You expect ME to know? Posts: 784	Well, unless he changed The Hobbit after writing LotR, it says in the hobbit that it was the Ring Of Power. __________________ If you say my name I go "What?" If you say my name twice I go and look it up in the dictionary. **************************** I'm Not Evil! ************************** If the critics say it's good, is it really That good? ************************** It's a bird! It's a plane! No! It's a balloon! **************************** Duddun, Son of Bubbun Last edited by Duddun : 12-04-2002 at 10:41 PM.

11-26-2002, 01:24 AM	#6
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	Tolkien wrote the Hobbit years before he wrote The Lord of the Rings. I don't think he thought the ring was particularily special when he wrote the Hobbit. I always thought Gollum was talking to the ring. Gollum hated himself, I find it hard to believe he referred to himself as 'precious'. __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

11-22-2002, 06:01 PM	#3
Miranda 'Bohemian princess of Covent Garden Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Mill Posts: 544	I reckon its Gollum's split personality, as if Gollum was talking to Smeagol or vice versa. Maybe when he has the Ring he speaks to Smeagol as Gollum as Gollum is the Ring (does that make sense DOH!) But in TTT he refers to himself as Smeagol when he doesn't have the Ring and so is no longer a split personality. I think the Ring talks through Gollum in a way, it takes him over like ghost are said to do with mediums. Oh give up Mimi you're not making any sense as usual- smack myself round the head with a pillow to try and make train of thoughts clearer- nah! not working. Mx

11-26-2002, 05:44 AM	#7
iowyth Sapling Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 8	One will always find inconsistencies between the hobbit and The Lord of the Rings because Tolkien wrote the Hobbit with no idea that it was going to become the forerunner to a great epic of his imaginary world. He actually went back and changed one chapter at the time he wrote LotR in order to get rid of one of these problems. Trying to sort of Gollums self image is an even more difficult problem. He was a bit of a nut, don't you agree? ;-)

12-03-2002, 04:48 PM	#8
gandalffan2525 Enting Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: mentally or physically? Posts: 64	absolutly! but thats whats so great about him! thanks for all the info! __________________ Never under estamate the power of stupid people in large groups. *************************** I AM,Malpan ************************ Who is X? ************************* click here-->Dagorhir! *************************** "I will personally strangle the next person who refers to ents as 'those talking tree things'"

12-13-2002, 01:40 PM	#10
Blackboar Legolas's beloved sister and Queen of the Wood Elves of Mirkwood Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Under the hill at Bag-end, Hobbiton the Shire Or Rivendell,I can't remember!!!!!!!!!! Posts: 1,086	Thats always bothered me!!

12-16-2002, 10:39 PM	#12
cassiopeia Viggoholic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 1,749	I just found a part in the History of the Lord of the Rings (The War of the Ring) where it says when "Precious" had a capital P, Gollum was referring to the ring, but when it says "precious' with a lower case p, Gollum is referring to himself. Check this in the LOTR, see especially the chapter "The Taming of Smeagol". __________________ Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.

04-24-2003, 11:15 AM	#13
SamwiseGamgeeOTS Elven Warrior Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A quaint little hole which last time I checked was somewhere near Ohio, Middle-Earth. Posts: 165	Dude.......i never even noticed that b4.....wow. that's weird.... __________________ "...Eragon recoiled in shock. Standing in front of him, licking off the membrane that encased it, was a dragon."

04-24-2003, 07:00 PM	#14
Wayfarer The Insufferable Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 3,333	The ring had long since begun to submerge Smeagol's personality- he was almost completely consumed by it, and so it is possible that he was talking to both the ring /and/ himself; the ring having overriden his mind in order to reduce him to the state where he was little more than its puppet. __________________ Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned, and keeps the rags of lordship once he owned

05-01-2003, 09:37 PM	#15
Lanelf Elven Warrior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Second Drawer Down Posts: 407	I thought it was Gollum talking to Smeagol or vice versa, or w/e. Tho I guess he coulda been talking to the ring, or The Ring. Heck, he could have been talking to rotting fish skeleton by his feet! I don't know. Lanelf. __________________ Hey, I'm back! resounding silence You didn't even notice I was gone, did you? Well, I'm back now anyway. Artemis Fowl must find Mulch Diggums! You'll never shut down the real Napster

05-04-2003, 08:39 PM	#16
durin's bane Lady of Westernesse Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada (Help! Our parliament building is melting!) Posts: 761	I think Gollum was talking to the Ring, though when Tolkien wrote the Hobbit, he wasn't really sure of the ring was going to be The Ring. Maybe when he has the Ring, he thinks he's the Ring, because in The Two Towers, he didn't have it, and he always called himself by his real name. Maybe it's only when the Ring's in his posession. __________________ Yada, yada, yada

05-06-2003, 02:11 AM	#17
Baby-K Corruptor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Jozi SA Posts: 1,885	I believe in The Hobbit the focus was more on Gollum and the abstract 'creature' he was. He was speaking to himself because he had no other company & in his mind he might have been two people (Gollum & Smeagol). In LotR he was no longer alone in the dark, but because he had been for so long his social skills had been diminished to nothing & he found it difficult to relate / speak to others, thus he spoke to the ring - it was the only thing he really knew & felt comfortable with. (That's my early morning, pre-only-cup-of-coffee-for-the-day thoughts anyway). Perhaps the ring represented something tangible to Gollum of that which he had once been, but lost (i. e Smeagol) because as soon as he no longer has the ring in his posession he is able to communicate better & also refers to himself by his real name. Could also be that Gollum was schitzo.... __________________ Don't wet yourself with excitement.

05-06-2003, 10:44 AM	#18
Psycho Kitty Enting Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 66	no i dont think he was just schitzo. and i think the ring was basically alive to him. it had a very real living presence to him. i mean it was part of sauron after all. a big part. so it was a living evil really and it held power over him and communicated with him in its way. and gollum came to see it as a part of him. which is why he called it/him my precious. i think it effected everyone like this not just gollum. there are parts in the book where bilbo is talking to himself about things like when hes going into smaugs chamber but he does it in a normal way like you and i might if we are nervous. but you can see how it can go from that to where gollum is after hundreds of years of influence by the presence of the ring. __________________ Its a common occurance. We all come to terms with it at some time or another. That beautiful feeling of being left behind. With the Golden promise touching anothers horizion. Being left sitting still and waiting for nothing. Unable to move until it comes.

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