Nineteen Eighty-four

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

Personally, I disagree with that point of view. If we were really bad (oh, I haven't had a chance to see the video, because I'm still afraid it will crash my computer. What happens?) enough to be called a "police state", the very fact that I'm saying "police state" would wind up having me disappear into the back of one of those sinister looking black vans I've always joked about. Many of you will agree with me, but I think, as a global society we're getting better. Admittedly, we'd be on top of the world if we spent half as much money on scientific research and those "dumb, expensive projects" like the space elevator as we do potato chips and video games and flavored toothpicks and movies.

Or how about we spend half as much on feeding the world's starving as we spend on space elevators?

Originally Posted by Tel

Laws now can be made without the consent of the congress or the senate, thus without the consent of the american people.

Are you equating the Senate and Congress with the American people?

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by Gwaimir Windgem

Are you equating the Senate and Congress with the American people?

Through our vote they are our representitives.

[hectorberlioz]

I own both Animal Farm and 1984, but have yet to read the latter. I have, on the other hand, read Animal Farm twice.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by The Telcontarion

Now do you think it's 1984 trolls' bane?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles...6Olbermann.htm

Sorry, I still disagree. As long as I still have that space between my ears, albeit no more, I don't think this is quite like Nineteen Eighty-four. We're in a unique and admittedly bad situation, and I've been hearing about secret imprisonment and whatnot for quite a while (my dad is a vhemenent (Sp?) critic of Bush, et al.)

Gwai, I respectufully decline to acknowlege that. Building a space elevator would end world hunger. Once colonization of Mars and the hospitable Jovian moons is complete, plus the benefits from the space elevator (such as the Berkowitz-Helliwell People Mover System a friend and I are developing, as well as an idea I've had regarding gargantuan aerial tramways spanning the Strait of Gibraltir and connecting Russia to Alaska). You know, I'm also a big fan of genetic engineering. Eight-legged cows pack a lot of steak!
And much can be learned from zero-G genetic experiments (or so I've heard), which would become very cheap with the construction of a space elevator.
On top of that, development of terraforming efforts in the more hostile environments could begin to apply to the less hostile environments of Earth, creating rich farmland more efficiently than it's currently being developed. Not to mention oceanic and maybe even atmospheric colonization: whole floating cities and farms made largely out of carbon nanotubes (which are the primary construction components of the space elevator, and the development therin is crucial for the development of such cities) could be built.

[hectorberlioz]

We should probably make a new thread for this subject...

I have to make it known: I'm against really "altering" the planet or animals for any cause...

One of these days our technology is going to catch us up, and it'll be the Fall of Rome all over again...

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

We should probably make a new thread for this subject...

I have to make it known: I'm against really "altering" the planet or animals for any cause...

One of these days our technology is going to catch us up, and it'll be the Fall of Rome all over again...

You're a Red! Hectorberlioz is a Red! Get ready: There is no going back. Free Mars!
I agree. Maybe roll them all into part of the space elevator discussion. I'd hate to have a thread for every one of these ideas.

[hectorberlioz]

I AM NOT red . Definitely not....

It's not that I'm anti-discovery/better means, it's that I think sometimes we leap into something just because it is "new" and think that it is automatically better.

[trolls' bane]

[Borg Voice]Thinking is irrelevant. The space elevator, etcetera, is better.[/Borg Voice]

[The Telcontarion]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

We should probably make a new thread for this subject...

I have to make it known: I'm against really "altering" the planet or animals for any cause...

One of these days our technology is going to catch us up, and it'll be the Fall of Rome all over again...

Amen!!!

[rohirrim TR]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I AM NOT red . Definitely not....

It's not that I'm anti-discovery/better means, it's that I think sometimes we leap into something just because it is "new" and think that it is automatically better.

I agree in fact i'm writing a research paper on that very idea how bio-tech and some of our greatest technological leaps need to be looked at a little more carefully on long term effects that sort of thing. *slaps forehead* in fact I should probably be working on that now.

[Spock]

This thread is wandering further from the topic than Moses did from the Promised land.

This is in the General Literature Thread and is about a BOOK

you can post on other topics in the appropriate topic threads.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by Spock

This thread is wandering further from the topic than Moses did from the Promised land.

Wait – is that the Jordan or Kadesh up ahead? or a mirage…?


Come to think of it, Smith cracks and surrenders in 1984. Sam Lowry cracks and escapes – into a mirage, a dream – under the same conditions in Brazil. It that pertinent?

[BeardofPants]

Everytime I see the title of this thread, I always get the Dead Kennedys song stuck in my head. [editted bad smiley-code]

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Wait – is that the Jordan or Kadesh up ahead? or a mirage…?


Come to think of it, Smith cracks and surrenders in 1984. Sam Lowry cracks and escapes – into a mirage, a dream – under the same conditions in Brazil. It that pertinent?

So...It's like a version of Nineteen Eighty-four with a happier ending?

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

So...It's like a version of

Nineteen Eighty-four

with a happier ending?

WTF happened here? Oh, never mind. I see now that I quoted it.

[XRogue]

I liked 1984. But then I remember being alive then...

Seriously, it's a good book. Spooked me but good with the psychological bits about breaking Winston.

[Alcuin]

Originally Posted by trolls' bane

So...It's like a version of Nineteen Eighty-four with a happier ending?

Yes. In many ways, Brazil is a “happy” version of 1984. You have to take that for what it’s worth: all the folks in Brazil are smiling and appear happy except the folks in the torture chamber chair; but the society it depicts is every bit as horrible and soulless as that George Orwell drew from his vision of the future at the end of World War II. It is, in fact, a retelling of the same story, but with a twist. I remember going to see it with two good friends when it was first released in the 1980s: it took us about 45 minutes to recover our sense of reality. It is every bit as shocking and horrific as 1984, but it gets under your skin faster and easier, which is alarming.

[trolls' bane]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Yes. In many ways, Brazil is a “happy” version of 1984. You have to take that for what it’s worth: all the folks in Brazil are smiling and appear happy except the folks in the torture chamber chair; but the society it depicts is every bit as horrible and soulless as that George Orwell drew from his vision of the future at the end of World War II. It is, in fact, a retelling of the same story, but with a twist. I remember going to see it with two good friends when it was first released in the 1980s: it took us about 45 minutes to recover our sense of reality. It is every bit as shocking and horrific as 1984, but it gets under your skin faster and easier, which is alarming.

Neat!

[Bran]

One thing I liked better about Brazil was the amount of contrast they gave you between the world the character is in and the one he would like to be in. In 1984 you don't get the impression that Winston knows how much better life could really be, only that he knows something is wrong. He doesn't seem as sure of what's missing in his life. While Sam Lowry of Brazil has dreams about being a hero with morals, in a world seemingly without heroes and morals, and heroicly rescuing the girl he loves, in a world seemingly without love. He dreams about being able to fly and having total freedom.

Also, Brazil is more about how sociaty in general went crazy, and not just it's goverment. It's about how shallow the world is becoming and how hard it is for people with values to live in a sociaty that is increasingly becoming amoral without going insane.

1984 is a terrific book, though. I can see why it's such a classic.

[Gwaimir Windgem]

Originally Posted by Alcuin

Yes. In many ways, Brazil is a “happy” version of 1984. You have to take that for what it’s worth: all the folks in Brazil are smiling and appear happy except the folks in the torture chamber chair; but the society it depicts is every bit as horrible and soulless as that George Orwell drew from his vision of the future at the end of World War II. It is, in fact, a retelling of the same story, but with a twist. I remember going to see it with two good friends when it was first released in the 1980s: it took us about 45 minutes to recover our sense of reality. It is every bit as shocking and horrific as 1984, but it gets under your skin faster and easier, which is alarming.

It may look happier, on the outside, but I certainly wouldn't say it had a happy ending. Well, sort of...but it's a little to characterise that ending as 'happy'.