Were the Nazgul incapable of suicide? (Even though it wasn’t such a bad idea)

[Landroval]

You know, I wonder, why was it necessary to take the ring _with torment_? Wouldn't sheer force suffice? Perhaps a common feature of the power rings was to be hidden to everyone and hold on to its master. [Gandalf maintained his ring, even though he was imprisoned by Saruman and even when reimbodied; Sauron too kept the ring to himself all the time, with the destruction of Numenor and whatnot; we could speculate about how Galadriel and Elrond kept their rings secret too...]

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Landroval

You know, I wonder, why was it necessary to take the ring _with torment_? Wouldn't sheer force suffice? Perhaps a common feature of the power rings was to be hidden to everyone and hold on to its master. [Gandalf maintained his ring, even though he was imprisoned by Saruman and even when reimbodied; Sauron too kept the ring to himself all the time, with the destruction of Numenor and whatnot; we could speculate about how Galadriel and Elrond kept their rings secret too...]

It is way too interesting, and off-topic here. I am opening a special thread for it here .

[CAB]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Indeed even the Elven fear were not supposed to endure for long in the Mortal Lands - the Elves either departed for Valinor, or faded.

Your right Gordis. I hadn’t thought about that. So it seems very unlikely that Men would desire life in Middle Earth for thousands of years. But in the case of the Nazgul...

Originally Posted by Gordis

The question is: Were the wraiths continuing to feel "world-weariness", as they did when living

No, the Nazgul weren’t ordinary Men, so maybe they didn’t feel “world-weariness”. But I think they did. I doubt that the rings could completely overcome the nature of Men (as made by Eru). Also there is this:

‘Oathbreakers, why have ye come?’
And a voice was heard out of the night that answered him, as if from far away: ‘To fulfil our oath and have peace.’ - The Return of the King

The Dead Men weren’t exactly the same as the Nazgul, but they are about as close as we can get, and they desired release.

Originally Posted by Gordis

We don't know for sure, but the nazgul, when they appear in LOTR, do not seem to be world-weary. They have a sense of humour (laughing at Frodo at the Ford and at Gandalf at the Gate), seem to have some vanity (WK's crown at the Gates of Minas-Tirith) and hopes for the future - like hoping to rule Gondor and/or Arnor.

Maybe this indicates a lack of weariness, but to me it seems more of a half-acceptance of fate.

Originally Posted by Gordis

So there is a second possibility: the nazgul were suicidal, NOT from the World-weariness, but because of the loss of freedom. Of course, whether they were "Kings, sorcerers or warriors of old", they were not the kind who enjoyed being enslaved.

I think this could be a strong motivation. But, like Jon indicated, this is more of a personal opinion than anything else. There have certainly been many slaves in the history of the real world. I know nothing of what their suicide rates were like.

Originally Posted by Gordis

And, as I have quite recently pointed out in "Gollum" thread, they may have been not suicidal at all, but only hoped to become free with the One Ring's and Sauron's destruction, believing that the destruction of the One does not necessarily entail the loss of power of the Nine.

Very possible. The reason that the Nazgul could be ensnared by Sauron had much to do with their ignorance of the rings’ powers. That Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf suspected that the destruction of the One would cause the failure of the other great rings says nothing about what the Nazgul believed.

Originally Posted by Gordis

I think you should put "at least two ". Facts point that at least Khamul and the Witch-King were not really keen on getting anywhere near the Ring. Khamul was the one who spoke with the Gaffer, rode by the hobbits on the road, and was remaining hidden by the Ferry, watching the hobbits who were getting onto it.

If you interpret the Nazguls’ actions/inactions this way, you could be right. This isn’t what I was referring to though. I just meant that with nine different people with nine different personalities, it seems that at least one would wish to end his existence. I was just playing the percentages, so to speak.

Originally Posted by Gordis

If he had dragged one of his "suicidal nazgul" from Summath Naur at least once , or at least heard such a rumour, he wouldn't be so confident, would he?

Yeah, your probably right. I didn’t think about that.

Originally Posted by Gordis

The question WHEN Sauron got the 9 rings was much debated in my thread "Were the Nazgul free from Sauron...". I would be happy to hear your opinion.

I would very much like to see your opinion on this too, Jon. I always enjoy reading your posts.

Originally Posted by Landroval

Thror gave his ring to Thrain and the elves passed on the rings like bongs ; [as a side note, Gandalf states that even Bilbo gave the one ring by free will, and from Isildur's scroll, we know that he intended for his heirs to have it too].

Your right Landroval. I remember Gandalf saying that Bilbo was the only one to willingly give away a great ring (and I believed it too, what a dummy). But really, there are several cases of rings being freely given to other holders.

[Gordis]

Yes, I see. I think most nazgul were both weary of the World and hating their current situation of new enslavement.

Perhaps, world-weariness also became much stronger, when they lost their Rings. After all, with the Elves, it were the Rings, wielded Rings, that protected the holders and their surroundings from becoming World-weary.

And the main property of "ALL the Rings alike" was "preservation" after all.

So, having surrounded their Rings to Sauron, the nazgul lost their only protection, much like Galadriel and Elrond were compelled to leave ME, after their Rings lost power.