What if SMAUG had gotten The One Ring?

[The Gaffer]

Great thread! This would make an outstanding "alternative ending"

Maedhros's quote is highly pertinent, as it suggests that only Gandalf could wield the Ring and destroy Sauron fully.

Based on how the Ring affected the likes of Galadriel, I'd say that Smaug's considerable existing vanities and vices would have ballooned to epic proportions. He would not rest until he had gathered all the treasure of all the world into a great big pile to sit on. Entire civilisations would be devoted to producing and providing tribute. Teams of crack sages would labour night and day to come up with novel and interesting ways to flatter him.

Imagine the entire world enslaved to a single private equity fund manager. A bit like it is now, except with only one of 'em.

[CAB]

I pretty much agree with Earniel on this one but what I really wanted to say is…

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

Teams of crack sages would labour night and day to come up with novel and interesting ways to flatter him.

that is pretty dang funny.

[Gordis]

It is not as simple as that. Smaug would have big problems.

Firstly, the holders of the Three would soon understand that Smaug had got the Ring. And so would Sauron - freshly returned to Mordor. There will be a dragon-hunt opened: who gets Smaug first. The "good guys" will try to beat Sauron to it.
The Ring as such is not a great asset in combat (ask Sauron), and dragons were known to be killed by mere Men (like Fram).

I don't think ol'Smaug would last long...

[The Gaffer]

So, how did they not know that Gollum had it?

(CAB: thanks, nice that the effort was appreciated. I must confess, however: the joke is nicked from Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.)

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

So, how did they not know that Gollum had it?

Because neither Gollum nor Bilbo ever tried to take over the world using the Ring, did they?
If Smaug would just add the Ring to his hoard and sleep on it (as he might well do), or even use it occasionally to hunt invisible, then neither Sauron or the Wise would feel anything. But if the dragon decided to steal all the gold in ME and become the Lord - Smaug the Magnificent (the scenario you were discussing) then, I believe he would have the abovementioned problems.

[CAB]

Originally Posted by The Gaffer

I must confess, however: the joke is nicked from Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy.)

Well, there is a lot to be said for knowing when to use a good quote.



As The Gaffer said, how would anyone know if Smaug had the Ring? If the Ring went unused it might sit in Smaug's hoard unnoticed by the Wise or Sauron for who knows how long. It probably needed to be worn to be noticed and I for one really question that the Ring would expand enough to fit a dragon's claw. It did change sizes, presumably because Sauron could still shift shape when the Ring was forged, but it seems unlikely that Sauron could or would make himself dragon-sized. So why would the Ring be designed to fit a dragon?

But for the sake of argument (and since there isn't anything to indicate it wasn't possible either) let's assume Smaug could wear the Ring. What use would he find in it? I'm guessing - not too much. The Ring's real power is providing control over others and dragons don't appear to be much interested in this kind of control. Glaurung even went so far as to chase off his servants when he occupied Narogthrond. Still, the Ring would probably have no problem tempting Smaug just as it tempted so many others (even Sam, who also had little desire to control other people).

What if the Wise and/or Sauron became aware of Smaug's possession of the Ring? Well, if Sauron knew and the Wise didn't and Smaug was unable to use the Ring, I think Sauron might have just left it there, at least for a while. He would have been better off conquering Middle Earth first (and he didn't need the Ring for that) than wasting resources trying to recover the Ring while also drawing attention to the one way he could be defeated. Who could Sauron have sent to retrieve the Ring? With their fear of fire, the Nazgul weren't suited for such a mission. I would think that Sauron would have had to personally confront Smaug.

If the Wise knew and Sauron didn't, then probably an attempt to recover the Ring quietly (almost certainly involving a short, furry-footed patsy) would have been made first. If this failed, force might have been used, but this may have proved a rather difficult task (at least if it weren't for the bare spot on Smaug's chest).

If both parties knew about Smaug's possession, then I agree with Gordis, a race would have ensued and I'm guessing it would have been very messy. I guess, in the end, Smaug couldn't have survived this pursuit of the Ring, but I wouldn't underestimate the damage he could have caused in the meantime. Gandalf feared even for Rivendell should Smaug attack it.

When this thread was first active, the question of whether or not Smaug would have become invisible should he wear the Ring was discussed. I would guess not. Invisibility seems to be tied to access to the Spirit World. Sauron, Gandalf, and the Elves didn't turn invisible because they already had this access. According to Gordis's theory, Dwarves didn't turn invisible because, for them, access to the Sprit World was impossible. Men / Hobbits were capable of seeing the Spirit World, but not without aid. The rings of power gave them this aid, therefore they became invisible while wearing them. I would think that, due to dragons' origins and nature, Smaug saw in the Spirit World without aid, and so, would have remained visible should he have worn the Ring.

[Earniel]

There's also the question of whether Smaug, if the ring grew to fit him, would ever try it on. If the ring grew, he must have realised he was not holding a mere gadget, but a ring of power. And no doubt he knew of those rings and that they could enslave the bearer. I doubt he'd have tried it on in that case.

Another scenario is: Smaug finding the ring, thinking: "Hey, that looks spiffy, I've got just this small spot left uncovered in the hollow under my arm. This will fit perfectly... "

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by CAB

When this thread was first active, the question of whether or not Smaug would have become invisible should he wear the Ring was discussed. I would guess not.

I would guess "not" as well - but for entirely different reasons. Here is my speculation.
I think Smaug was an animal. Nor an evil spirit in animal form as Glaurung was hinted to be - but a natural, albeit clever, animal, like a wolf or an eagle or a Meara horse.
An animal has no fëa. The access to the spirit world (I guess) is only possible for beings with fëar. In the case of Maiar and Calaquendi, who dwell in both words, fëar can go at will here and there, while hroar remain in the World off Light. Another case are Men or hobbits, whose fear have no natural access to the World of Shadow and who are more "burdened" with hroar than Elves - at least it in hinted at in the Osanwe-kenta. I believe for their fëar to venture into the World of Shadow, the rings had to transfer their hroar there as well, making them invisible. Dwarves were so made that their fëar and hroar couldn't be transferred even by the Rings. As for animals, what was the point to transfer their hroar into the Spirit World if they had no fëar to act there?

Originally Posted by CAB

I would think that, due to dragons' origins and nature, Smaug saw in the Spirit World without aid, and so, would have remained visible should he have worn the Ring.

I think he had no access to the Spirit World - for the reasons mentioned above. Also he was unable to see Bilbo when the hobbit was wearing the Ring.

Originally Posted by CAB

Invisibility seems to be tied to access to the Spirit World. Sauron, Gandalf, and the Elves didn't turn invisible because they already had this access.

Maybe yes, and maybe not. Sauron, being the Ringlord and a competent Ring-user, probably could choose whether to turn invisible or not. Gandalf and the Elves had the Three Rings that didn't have the invisibility option at all. [“The Elves of Eregion made Three supremely beautiful and powerful rings: ... they did not confer invisibility.� - L #131]. We don't know what would happen if they put on the One or one of the Nine. Perhaps they would turn invisible by default, until they mastered the Ring.

[Mari]

Originally Posted by CAB

I for one really question that the Ring would expand enough to fit a dragon's claw. It did change sizes, presumably because Sauron could still shift shape when the Ring was forged, but it seems unlikely that Sauron could or would make himself dragon-sized. So why would the Ring be designed to fit a dragon?

I think it was designed not to fit a dragon or Sauron and his shapes specifically, but to fit the shape of who was wearing it.

Well, if Sauron knew and the Wise didn't and Smaug was unable to use the Ring, I think Sauron might have just left it there, at least for a while. He would have been better off conquering Middle Earth first (and he didn't need the Ring for that) than wasting resources trying to recover the Ring while also drawing attention to the one way he could be defeated. Who could Sauron have sent to retrieve the Ring? With their fear of fire, the Nazgul weren't suited for such a mission. I would think that Sauron would have had to personally confront Smaug.

I doubt Sauron would leave the Ring, which is a part of him at least in his mind. You just don't leave parts of yourself lying around where they can be found, especially if you are suspicious of others as most powerful people at lonely heights tend to be.
Besides, to Sauron, the Ring was not a possible deathly object. As Gandalf says at least two times: Sauron cannot even think of the possibility that someone might want to destroy the Ring rather then using it for himself.

Just wanted to add that

[CAB]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Also he was unable to see Bilbo when the hobbit was wearing the Ring.

Oops. I forgot about that. That alone shoots my idea down. I guess I'll have to reread about the effects of the rings of power on different races.

Originally Posted by Gordis

I think Smaug was an animal. Nor an evil spirit in animal form as Glaurung was hinted to be - but a natural, albeit clever, animal, like a wolf or an eagle or a Meara horse.

Was Glaurung supposed to be that unique among dragons? I don't remember that.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Mari

I think it was designed not to fit a dragon or Sauron and his shapes specifically, but to fit the shape of who was wearing it.

Sauron made the Ring only for himself, never expecting anyone else to wear it. I like CAB's idea connecting the Ring's ability to change size with Sauron's shape-shifting. Great idea, CAB and a quite original one!

Originally Posted by Mari

I doubt Sauron would leave the Ring, which is a part of him at least in his mind. You just don't leave parts of yourself lying around where they can be found, especially if you are suspicious of others as most powerful people at lonely heights tend to be.
Besides, to Sauron, the Ring was not a possible deathly object. As Gandalf says at least two times: Sauron cannot even think of the possibility that someone might want to destroy the Ring rather then using it for himself.

I agree.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by CAB

Was Glaurung supposed to be that unique among dragons? I don't remember that.

Recently on another forum a user has posted this quote, previously unknown to me:

In the passage in NE (p. 118) describing the eyes of Glaurung when Niënor came face to face with him on the hill-top, the words 'they were terrible, being filled with the fell spirit of Morgoth, his master' contain an editorial alteration: the manuscript reads 'the fell spirit of Morgoth, who made him' (cf. IV.128). My father under*lined the last three words in pencil, and faintly and barely legibly at the foot of the page he noted: 'Glaurung must be a demon [??contained in worm form].'

Grey Annals.

So, it seems,unlike Smaug, Glaurung was a wereworm.

[CAB]

Originally Posted by Mari

I think it was designed not to fit a dragon or Sauron and his shapes specifically, but to fit the shape of who was wearing it.

Well, the only person that was ever supposed to wear it was Sauron himself. So, if Sauron couldn't or wouldn't ever grow (or shrink) to a certain size, then the Ring didn't need to either. But, then again, maybe such limits were never considered in the making of the Ring.

Originally Posted by Mari

I doubt Sauron would leave the Ring, which is a part of him at least in his mind. You just don't leave parts of yourself lying around where they can be found, especially if you are suspicious of others as most powerful people at lonely heights tend to be.
Besides, to Sauron, the Ring was not a possible deathly object. As Gandalf says at least two times: Sauron cannot even think of the possibility that someone might want to destroy the Ring rather then using it for himself.

I agree that he wouldn't leave it in Smaug's possession forever. But due to practical concerns, he probably would have been better off waiting until his enemies in Middle Earth were defeated before trying to retrieve the Ring (if his enemies were unaware of the Ring's whereabouts, that is). Of course, he may or may not have followed this course of action.

Originally Posted by Mari

Just wanted to add that

Thanks for your comments. We don't always have as many participants in the books forums as we would like.

[CAB]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Recently on another forum a user has posted this quote, previously unknown to me:

So, it seems,unlike Smaug, Glaurung was a wereworm.

Hmm…I don't know. There was no dragon form before Glaurung, so how could a demon be put in a dragon's body to make Glaurung?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Gordis

I like CAB's idea connecting the Ring's ability to change size with Sauron's shape-shifting. Great idea, CAB and a quite original one!

Thanks Gordis, but has this really never been suggested before? Well, anyway, I think it is probably the best explanation.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by CAB

Hmm…I don't know. There was no dragon form before Glaurung, so how could a demon be put in a dragon's body to make Glaurung?

I think Morgoth first bred an animal. Actually Glaurung took long to grow: it is not like a Maia taking shape. I think during his first unsuccessful performance he was still a dragon - a simple animal. But then, maybe, Morgoth used his body to house an evil spirit - a houseless Elf or maybe a maia. Maiar could acquire a physical form on their own, but as DPR has suggested, there was likely a "conservation of mass" issue - even Sauron couldn't change into something really big like a dragon or a mumak.

Originally Posted by CAB

Thanks Gordis, but has this really never been suggested before?

Not to my knowledge.

[Earniel]

It is possible that Tolkien tried to make the genesis of dragons more akin to the balrog, making them demons.

I'm not sure of the term wereworm, though, to me it implies that Glaurung them must also have had another form to which he could turn.

[Gordis]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

I'm not sure of the term wereworm, though, to me it implies that Glaurung them must also have had another form to which he could turn.

I believe "worm" simply means "dragon" in Tolkien's works, not like a species of "Vermes" in zoology.
In the Hobbit Smaug was referred to as "worm":

There was a most specially greedy, strong and wicked worm called Smaug.
It may be a mercy and a blessing yet to know of the bare patch in the old Worm's diamond waistcoat.

Were-something (-wolf or-worm) means an animal inhabited by an evil spirit.

if I have to walk from here to the East of East and fight the wild Were-worms in the Last Desert. - The Hobbit

[Earniel]

Oh, I was referring to the 'were' bit, not the 'worm', that I understood. But if like werewolves, then the wolf-form is a second form, not the only one. At least, that's what the word implies IMO.

[Gordis]

the wolf-form is a second form

Could you, please, explain your idea, Earniel?

[BeardofPants]

From wiki:

Were and wer are archaic terms for adult male humans and were often used for alliteration with wife as "were and wife" in Germanic-speaking cultures (Old English were, German Wehr, Gothic waÃ*r' Old Frisian wer, Old Saxon wer, Old High German wer, Old Norse verr).

In folklore and fantasy fiction, were- is often used as a prefix applied to an animal name to indicate a type of shapeshifter (e.g. "were-boar"). Hyphenation used to be mandatory but is now commonly dropped, as in werecat and wererat. This usage can be seen as a back formation from werewolf (literally, "man-wolf"), as there is no equivalent wifewolf. A further back formation, polywere, eliminates the animal root entirely.

Gothic has a word translating kosmos derived from the same stem: faÃ*rhvus, used by Wulfila in alternation with manasêþs. The corresponding West Germanic term is werold "world", literally wer "man" + ald "age". Gothic faÃ*rhvus is cognate to Old High German fërah, Old English feorh, terms expressing "lifetime" (aevum).[1]

The word has cognates in various other languages, for example, the words vir (as in virile) and fear (plural fir as in Fir Bolg) are the Latin and Gaelic for man.

I think that's the tangent Earniel was driving at.