Discussion Thread Number 3 Of Wraiths-Kings-Friends-Rings Campaign

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

I suppose you have a good point there, Rian. If I'm not careful, Viv'll turn into some kind of Snow White with bluebirds sitting on her shoulders and bunny-rabbits happily hopping alongside her, and stuff.

LOL!

I let too much of my own character get into my Viniglaen character sometimes, what with passionately loving animals and all.

Yes, I'm also finding it hard sometimes to remember what my character would do vs. what I would do. Also, I'm finding it really hard to keep what my character knows vs. what I know separate.


EDIT - OK, Arastud and Annawen and Melwen all brought up-to-date. I always loved the Faramir/Eowyn scene, and had intended for Arastud and Annawen to have a scene like that, so - here it is!

[Gordis]

Lotesse, Excellent post.

Originally Posted by Valandil

I'll check out the link later, but whatever is in it may not apply for these points:
1. It was Sauron who engineered the whole thing with the black horses for his Nazgul to ride... and this was a new thing, 3000 years after the setting of THIS game - because it's pretty explicit in FOTR that being 'Black Riders' is a new identity for the Nazgul. So I don't think they would have had horses trained for them at this time - and even if Sauron had done so, nearly 50 years later, they'd all be gone now.

Nay, Val, this was NOT a NEW thing! Pretty explicit?? You are mistaken. The fell Beasts were new thing, not the horses.

Rhadagast says to Gandalf: "The nazgul, all Nine, disguised as Black Riders, as of old " Pray tell me how can one be disguised as a "Rider" without a horse? Are you trying to tell me that the Nazgul had to WALK for 4000 years, before Sauron prepared horses for them? And what did the Witch King ride in the battle of Fornost? Please check that out.

There was no Sauron around to train the horse the Witch-King was riding at Fornost. He did it himself. Sure the nazgul trained their horses themselves, throughout their long lives. Possibly only ones used in the "hunt for the Ring" were Mearas. At least, they have shown practically the same speed as Shadowfax.
For more details, please, read my thread "Nazgul horses".

Originally Posted by Valandil

2. Those particular horses, even if they WERE Mearas - were painstakingly trained, probably from the earliest parts of their lives, to be OK hanging out with the Mearas. I agree that Shadowfax acted differently around the Nazgul than regular horses would have, and was not intimidated by them, but NO WAY would Shadowfax have allowed a Nazgul to ride him.

No, Shadowfax wouldn't, but specially trained Mearas would and did.
Shadofax, by the way, was not an ordinary Meara.

Originally Posted by Valandil

3. Any Mearas in Middle Earth were probably in the upper vales of Anduin - there's no way Ray would have had one to give to Viv (we are talking about the horse that Ray gave to Viv, right?).

I think they were more likely in Rhovanion, as the Eoteod moved to the upper Vales of Anduin after the fall of Angmar in 1975. I don't see why some horses couldn't be found in Gondor or Arnor. They should be quite rare and costly, but not impossible.

Originally Posted by Valandil

That's good for starters. I'll gladly think of more if you still object - but you guys can't have EVERYTHING. Nazguls may be powerful creatures, but they come with their own particular disadvantages too. I think they will even have to concentrate on keeping regular animals from having a fit around them... if they get distracted by something else - or even sleep, or try to have some nookie - and there are animals around, the creatures will go NUTS!

The disadvantages you are talking about are from the time when the nazgul were deprived of their Rings. We don't know for sure what they were able to do with their rings. We have NO EVIDENCE that they could even turn VISIBLE. We accepted it for the RPG, but it is hardly canon. If the nazgul turn visible and are able to fool even ELVES in broad daylight, why the animals should show more sensitivity?

Yes, you can think of more, Val, and I will be glad to discuss it further , but please read the horses thread first. Perhaps it would be better if you continue the thread, as there is a lot of quotes and arguments already. Though I admit, you are the first to say that the nazgul were unable to ride horses before their "daddy" Sauron thought of training some for them...

[Lotesse]

Rian - re. Arastud & Annawen - And their names even match! That's good match-making, for real. I like the "conversation with the willow switch" bit, too.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Udukhaturz

Rian, you have asked some very pertinent questions. To answer your first one from my point of view, and it is mine only. I speak for no one but myself. If my character is at war with another character, my character will retaliate, ie, kill, destroy, maim, etc., to the limits set by the gamemaster.

Yes, and I think that's right, as long as we don't kill off another person's character without their permission. We can't ask another character to act in a way that they wouldn't, but we can also negotiate before any killing of main characters take place, as I'm sure you'd do.

Now to your second point. I know this from experience in many years of RPG and wargaming. People MUST keep their real personalities and their characters SEPARATE. It is never good to base a character directly upon your personality, because you are going to hurt when your character gets hurt.

Excellent point - I was hoping to hear from someone with experience, as I have zilch!!

As I said before, beginning RULES are always good. That way everyone knows what is allowed and what is not.

Good idea. Can you think of any we need that aren't here yet?


ps - re the Faramir/Eowyn post with Arastud/Annawen - I mean, how could I pass up a chance to use the word "puissant"? Not that Arastud would probably know what it means, but I used a little suspension of reality there because it was fun.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Pray tell me how can one be disguised as a "Rider" without a horse?

*tries to banish Monty Python and pictures of coconuts from her mind*

thanks, Lotesse - glad you liked it! I think your scent of human lust in the hay thing is still ok, because you weren't specific, but change it if you think it needs it.


* * NOTICE * * - I am now going to do my Elvish poetry/song battle in the park!! For this post (or posts ) I am quoting verbatum from a beautiful old song/poem. Rian, Tyaron and Alagos are picking and choosing from different parts to "fight" each other. And I would like to ask you guys, for fun, if anyone recognizes the piece! (WITHOUT googling!) If you know it, please just say that you know it, and don't give the name away yet. I"m just curious to see who would know it. I'll give the name out in 24 hours or so.

[Lotesse]

Here can be the Orrodel House main living room, or at least a part of it...

http://www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/chg/c.../2003_1944.JPG

Are you guys catching all the pic links I'm putting here today? Any comments or suggestions about my Orrodel ideas?

Rian - re. Song battles - Right On!! Reminds me of the rap battle scene from 8 Mile, the Eminem movie. That's a compliment, BTW in case you didn't know. Big time.

[Lady Marion Magdalena]

*tries to banish Monty Python and pictures of coconuts from her mind*

*Starts humming "I am not yet Dead"*

I quite like the idea of Monty Python Nazgul, they could borrow their armor from the Knights of Nee.

I love the pictures you're finding Lotesse. I'd live in a place like that if I were a Nazgul.

[Gordis]

I will try to prepare the Orrodel floorplan (groundfloor, first floor, second floor, attic) Thanks for the directions, CS, Lotesse and especially Udu!
Lotesse, I loved your pictures, one will be dining room, the other living room.
But the estate doesn't fit well, it is a country estate not a city house. It is only my opinion, of course.

And yes, it will be well not to overdo the animal thing. That's why neither the Chancellor, nor Aiwendis have any pets . But horses they have for sure, the best ones that could be obtained.

Re: attitude. It is not necessary to become enemies even arguing hotly over a point, unless one becomes personally insulting.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Re: attitude. It is not necessary to become enemies even arguing hotly over a point, unless one becomes personally insulting.

Hear, hear!! True that. We're all intelligent, sensitive adults around here; how're we gonna make "enemies" pout of each other just from playing an RPG together? So silly.

I'm glad U like the pics, Gordis! Let me see if I can find a more fitting city-style home 4 U...

O.K. - trying still to find good staircase pix - here's a nice one, and envision the ground floor that the staircase sweeps out, nice & wide, with deep crimson carpeting...


http://www.jack-travel.com/IledeFran...Staircase1.jpg

[Gordis]

Great post, Udu. Realistic approach (I mean the splinters ). And I liked that Khamul's lies about Aiwendis had played their part. Interesting new sub-plot.

Lotesse Keep getting more pics. I am half-asleep already, but tomorrow I will have a look.

Rian nice post about A&A, but Melwen was not SIMPLY drunk, she is now firmly in love with Arastud, as Khamul planted it in her mind deeply, so no throwing up will change that. So her question "What am I doing here?" is a bit strange.

As for your poetry post, I have to leave it for tomorrow.

Bye, All!

[Rían]

Gordis - I'll change the post to reflect Khamul's potion more accurately. I think the "what am I doing here" can stay, as she doesn't remember how she got there, but she can go to "but now that I'm here .... "


GUYS - if you know what the poem is, please do NOT post the name! I'd like to see who knows it Just say if you know it or not, please

[Rían]

(thanks, Lotesse, for taking out the poem name )

Lotesse knew the poem, but she edited it out for me.

You were spot on, Lotesse - how long did it take you to figure it out?

Whew, 3 long posts - I'm done posting now, I'll take a tour through the Orrodel piccy links

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Rian - re. Song battles - Right On!! Reminds me of the rap battle scene from 8 Mile, the Eminem movie. That's a compliment, BTW in case you didn't know. Big time.

thanks - it was sure fun picking out the different parts for them to "battle" with! It's SUCH an elvish thing to do, too, don't you think?

[Rían]

*drools over gorgeous pictures*

Whew! I wants it!! I wants it, preciousss!

*comes back to reality*

Well, I must say, you're gonna need some good staff for all that dusting! Hopefully Zimra (sp?) has lots of cousins ...

My next post will be Rian returning to Orrodel and taking her leave - who should she talk to? Who wants to do this with her?

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Yes, and I think that's right, as long as we don't kill off another person's character without their permission. We can't ask another character to act in a way that they wouldn't, but we can also negotiate before any killing of main characters take place, as I'm sure you'd do.

Rian, I do not plan to do anything hostile to anyone's characters unless that person and I have worked it out privately by PM. So no one will have to worry about a sudden disappearance of someone's character, please note I am not now in any PMs with anyone to obtain that goal.

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Good idea. Can you think of any we need that aren't here yet?

I consider this an RPG in "transition," and possibly a learning experience for those like you who are in a RPG for the first time. I find this group by far a more civilized group than what I have always been dealing, ie, wargamers, and therefore much more reasonable. Since it is transition, I think some rules will naturally evolve.

However, in the future, it would be impossible to say who might join. It goes without saying that if anyone becomes personally threatening, uses foul language, etc, etc, this person will be dealt with by the moderators. That said, I would suggest that if any "Bang, bang, you're dead" quick-on-the-trigger RPGers join and try to do mayhem against an RPGer's wishes that the moderator is the final arbitrator. That should avoid sticky, unpleasant situations right from the beginning.

Perhaps this could be worded something like, "No player is to kill, maim, injure another player's character unless the aforesaid can give substantial proof that an agreement has been worked out with the other person that such damage is acceptable. The proof would consist of private messages between the two parties. The moderator xxx and/or xxx is/are the final judge(s) as to the validity of such actions." This should be an unbreakable RULE, and recorded in the information thread.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Udukhaturz

Rian, I do not plan to do anything hostile to anyone's characters unless that person and I have worked it out privately by PM.

No, I didn't think you would - I was just reiterating some thoughts.


NOTE - I have now edited post #410, with Arastud and Melwin (?) or whatever her name was.

And I'm OUTTA HERE! Enjoy the rest of your weekends, guys!

[Udukhaturz]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Great post, Udu. Realistic approach (I mean the splinters ). And I liked that Khamul's lies about Aiwendis had played their part. Interesting new sub-plot.

Gordis, since Udu is a Nazgûl, the damage should heal quickly when (if) he is released from the invisible chains. Until then, the injuries will hurt. Yes, Khamûl's ideas have taken hold in Udu's mind, and he will trust no one in Tharbad. He has not seen any of them for almost fifty years, and he really did not want to see them again. He was more or less content in the East and is having second thoughts about being in Tharbad. Definitely a sub-plot there about Aiwendis. Udu is going to be an even more bitter Nazgûl by the time he finally leaves.

[Serenoli]

Gordis, regarding the queries you had about Tolvadok... you are pretty good. Don't change your post. I have hardly posted much, so its hard to understand his charcter right away. Every person will percieve Tolvadok in a different way, and I think Aiwendis, who is so delicate, would not like him much. He is not like Khamul, because Khamul strikes me as a much more brutal person. Tolvadok is too impersonal to be brutal, but he is certainly evil
Earlier, you asked if he's a Numenorean, but he's not. The kingdom he came from was in the North east, somewhere near Eregion, and I think I mentioned they were allies with the Elves who helped create the Rings of Power.

Rian very pretty love-scenes. How funny the Arastud and Annawen scene was! And I like the singing, but I don't know the poem.

BTW, I won't be here from the day after tomorrow for about 4days. Reason: Its Eid!!!
Anyway, I would really appreciate it if someone would temporarily post for Tolvadok, and Jas Fernik. I hate missing out just when the exciting fight-scenes are coming up. But there's nothing I can do about it, so are there any takers?

[Valandil]

Originally Posted by Gordis

Nay, Val, this was NOT a NEW thing! Pretty explicit?? You are mistaken. The fell Beasts were new thing, not the horses.

Rhadagast says to Gandalf: "The nazgul, all Nine, disguised as Black Riders, as of old " Pray tell me how can one be disguised as a "Rider" without a horse? Are you trying to tell me that the Nazgul had to WALK for 4000 years, before Sauron prepared horses for them? And what did the Witch King ride in the battle of Fornost? Please check that out.

Here's the Radagast quote as I found it in the book: "The Nine are abroad again. They have crossed the River secretly and are moving westward. They have taken the guise of riders in black."

The part bolded is what makes me think there's something new here. Was it the 'black' part?

For more details, please, read my thread "Nazgul horses".

I did manage to read most of it. I don't think it's proof conclusive that their late Third Age horses were mearas - but I certainly don't think a Nazgul could walk up to any old meara and make them its mount.

I think they were more likely in Rhovanion, as the Eoteod moved to the upper Vales of Anduin after the fall of Angmar in 1975. I don't see why some horses couldn't be found in Gondor or Arnor. They should be quite rare and costly, but not impossible.

I'll stick with upper Anduin. The ancestors of the Rohirrim were probably in Rhovanion - or just hadn't arrived there yet. But their first recorded encounter with a meara was the one Eorl captured and trained, after it had killed his father. That was upper Anduin.

(EDIT: and most of them were probably running free until tamed by the Eotheod... so I'm not sure 'costly' applies)

Lotesse: as for the "1313 Mockingbird Lane" - there are two main reasons I thought so...

1. The state of the house when Rian first arrived.
2. What you Nine eventually do to my ancestral home of Minas Ithil!

Those just seemed to me to contrast sharply with the beautiful rooms you posted, with all the sunlight coming in, etc.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

I'm really sorry if I've caused any kind of delay guys. I'm back on normal Moot time for another two weeks now, before I'm away again.
Thanks for all who posted for Khamûl, all posts were fine and no editing required.

As for Orrodel lay out, I had some ideas which I'll try and put up later. It's more of a layout than detailed room descriptions.