What if SMAUG had gotten The One Ring?

[Valandil]

OK - I know JRRT wasn't even thinking about LotR when he wrote 'The Hobbit'... but treating this as 'discovered history' rather than 'fiction' - imagine this scenario:

Bilbo's second visit to Smaug's lair... Bilbo is a bit slower getting out, or Smaug decides to take a blast in his general direction a bit sooner... with less provocation. He sees a form engulfed in the flame of his breath... or just his flames flickering in and out of visibility... until Bilbo is consumed and 'CLING'... with a ringing sound, a gold ring falls to the floor.

Smaug picks it up... curiously. "What's this thing that didn't burn up in my firey breath?" He examines it, notices how it grows to fit his finger, tries it on... and discovers its nature.

What happens next?

(OR - if his breath DID melt it - I guess there'd be no 'Lord of the Rings' story. Sauron would have withered away, with all his plans and his ringwraiths... Gandalf could have returned to the West and the work of the Elven Rings would have begun to fade. Then Smaug could have had the 13 dwarves for lunch (invisible... heehee! ))

[QueenAnnesLace]

That question makes me even more intrigued to read all of the books. It sure is interesting just when you hear people talking about it.

[BeardofPants]

Val, what on earth goes through your mind when you're sitting at home shivering in your underoos? I mean really: invisisisible dragons? Were you an odd child?

Interesting though, I wonder if he would've gone Dwarvish, and just craved it for it's goldenliciousness, or whether he would've had illusions of power....

[Maedhros]

Smaug picks it up... curiously. "What's this thing that didn't burn up in my firey breath?" He examines it, notices how it grows to fit his finger, tries it on... and discovers its nature.

I don't think that it is the nature of the ring to turn the wearer invisible. After all, when Sauron used it, his hröa didn't turn invisible did it?

It would be interesting to find out the nature of the dragons.

[Elf Girl]

Well, yes, but it was his Ring. I think it makes pretty much everyone invisible, only since it's Sauron's he can make it do what he wants.

[Maedhros]

Well, yes, but it was his Ring. I think it makes pretty much everyone invisible, only since it's Sauron's he can make it do what he wants.

Would it make another maiar like Gandalf or Saruman invisible? Would it make an elf invisible?

[Valandil]

I wonder if beings of a higher order could determine whether it made them invisible or not... if that feature could be turned 'on' or 'off'. In fact, before someone gave me an explanation from HoMe along the lines of what you're saying, I had wondered if Isildur, when he put it on, 'ordered' or 'willed' it to make him invisible... and if it was still in that mode over 3000 years later - either from nobody (neither Gollum, Bilbo nor Frodo) thinking to command it otherwise, or not having the same strength of will as Isildur, being unable to reverse the 'setting'

Remember that, man though he was, Isildur 'cursed' a whole people into a restless death... Could he not have had a measure of control over the operation of the Ring? To an extent anyway?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

There's a teensy problem with Smaug melting the Ring:
"...nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself."

And maybe the nazgul could have run around Smaug distracting him until they could pinch the ring.

Or: Shelob as Ring Lady?
Dances around Mount Doom thinking about ancestor Ungoliant's contratemps with Morgoth: "I'm on top o' the world, ma!"
(Just before Orodruin blows up ).
(Old movie allusion) (With Jimmy Cagney?)

[Maedhros]

I wonder if beings of a higher order could determine whether it made them invisible or not... if that feature could be turned 'on' or 'off'.

From the Letters 246

Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.
Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great). 'Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.'

It seems truly naive to think that Gandalf could have become the Ring-Lord and turned invisible when he put on the Ring. Perhaps it is that because Sauron is an ëalar and he can control his hröa better than a Man or an Elf, the ring wouldn't make him invisible but it does make a Man or a Hobbit not visible.

[Valandil]

Maedhros - I don't understand your post.

If you're trying to say those quotes indicate that Isildur could not possibly have any control whatsoever over any aspects of the Ring's power, I don't see it there.

And I am not sure why you mention that about Gandalf at the end. (EDIT: - Oh, were you answering your own question from before?)

AND... I don't see anything there that relates to what would happen if a dragon got ahold of the Ring... What do you think would happen in THAT case? WOULD it automatically make him invisible? If not, COULD it make him invisible if he willed it?

[Valandil]

Originally posted by Tuor of Gondolin
There's a teensy problem with Smaug melting the Ring:
"...nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself."

OK... I had THOUGHT there was something like that in there... but didn't have a chance to check. I remembered mention of dragon's breath - but wasn't sure offhand what it said about getting a dragon to melt down the One Ring...

[Maedhros]

If you're trying to say those quotes indicate that Isildur could not possibly have any control whatsoever over any aspects of the Ring's power, I don't see it there.

And I am not sure why you mention that about Gandalf at the end. (EDIT: - Oh, were you answering your own question from before?)

AND... I don't see anything there that relates to what would happen if a dragon got ahold of the Ring... What do you think would happen in THAT case? WOULD it automatically make him invisible? If not, COULD it make him invisible if he willed it?

The question that needs to be asked first is:

1. Is invisibility and inherent property of the Ring?
2. Why does the ring made Men and hobbits invisible?

1. I don't think that invisibility is an inherent property of the Ring, rather a side effect of the Men and hobbits who wore it.

2. Perhaps it turned them invisible because

a: They could not master the Ring.
b: They because they had a lesser control over their hröa in respect to Maiar, is the reason that they turned invisible.

IMO, I think that it depends on the nature of the Dragon. It depends on their hröa control. I don't think that they would turn invisible, just because of the power that Morgoth used in breeding them, but that is just speculation.

[Telcontar_Dunedain]

Originally Posted by Valandil

(OR - if his breath DID melt it - I guess there'd be no 'Lord of the Rings' story. Sauron would have withered away, with all his plans and his ringwraiths... Gandalf could have returned to the West and the work of the Elven Rings would have begun to fade. Then Smaug could have had the 13 dwarves for lunch (invisible... heehee! ))

His breath wouldn't have melted it as in the Shadow of the Past Gandalf says that their never was a dragon, not even Glarung, that could have melted the Ring with it's fire and that it must be destroyed in Orodruin.

Originally Posted by Maedhros

I don't think that it is the nature of the ring to turn the wearer invisible. After all, when Sauron used it, his hröa didn't turn invisible did it?

Thats only because Sauron mixed part of himself in with the Ring to make it more powerful.

[Radagast The Brown]

Originally Posted by Telcontar_Dunedain

Thats only because Sauron mixed part of himself in with the Ring to make it more powerful.

Yes, but still - Galadriel says she's be the queen of Middle earth of something like this when Frodo wants to give her the ring - how would she if the Ring turns her invisible? I agreee with Maedhros, then -

a: They could not master the Ring.
b: They because they had a lesser control over their hröa in respect to Maiar, is the reason that they turned invisible.

[Haradrim]

Ive always thought it has something to do wiuth the innate pwer of the subject. If the weilder is powerful then it can do anything if the weilder is on the weaker end it makes him invisible. I think if the dragon got he would throw it into his pile without a second thought but if he did put it on it would probably mak ehim incredibly strong, able to fly fast, and super hot breath.

btw I always thought it had nothing to do with the heat of Mount Doom but the fact that that was where it was created and there was something innate about it.

[Coffeehouse]

This discussion moved off the point too early,

The intruiging question is, what would be the consequence if Smaug got hold of the ring and kept it inside the Lonely Mountain?

[Curufin]

I believe it would have just gotten to Sauron that much faster. Smaug was an evil spirit (like Glaurung), and therefore probably pretty much under the control of Sauron.

[Coffeehouse]

Originally Posted by Curufin

I believe it would have just gotten to Sauron that much faster. Smaug was an evil spirit (like Glaurung), and therefore probably pretty much under the control of Sauron.

You think so?

I was more under the impression he was a kind of independent-minded dragon
But there may be evidence to the contrary I guess..

[Curufin]

I've only read The Hobbit once (and don't intend to do so again), but I'm basing what I know on Glaurung... I could be wrong, though.

[Earniel]

Glaurung at the time was born and bred in the Thangorodrim. He grew strong under the direct influence and control of Morgoth, who then simply let him out to play. This would not have applied to Smaug and Sauron. But Gandalf did worry that Smaug could become a more burning issue if Sauron intervened. Dragon fire in Rivendell and no queen for Gondor... Which is why Gandalf was keen to have Smaug out of the way before Sauron ever became into power again.

So it is very likely that Smaug would have joined in the fray of the War of the Ring if he had still been around. Possibly under Sauron's control, but more (I think) as an independant contractor.