Anduril's Happy Bible Review!!

[Andúril]

I have posted the first four parts in the Anti-theist thread. But I fear that it, in all its effervescent humour, merely amuses the majority of those reading it. I submited an invitation in the Theism thread, but I don't think anyone is interested (other than Wayferer) in debating the issues.

Regardless, in the light of the state of the Anti-theist thread (multiple topics currently being discussed with no sign of slowdown), I will post my Review here.

I hope everyone has fun. Can you see me smiling? Nevermind.

As a side note, much of the material seen in my Review can be obtained here. You should find that some of the contradictions brought up there can be easily refuted, and I have subsequentally left those out.

Well, here goes nothing! Below are parts one to four. I will only post the following parts after adequate time has been given to the issues already mentioned. Enjoy.

Oh, I almost forgot: if anybody wants to add anything that I may have omitted, be my guest.

Have a nice day.

[Andúril]

I shall start with Genesis, and I will be referring predominantly to the KJV, unless the version becomes a point of contention.

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[1:3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. [4] And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

[1:14] And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: [15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. [16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. [17] And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, [18] And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

First of all there is the obvious issue of ambient light existing without the existence of light-emitting objects.

Next, in the first passage, which occurred on day 1, God separates the light from the dark, which essentially means that he separates the Day from the Night (these terms are mentioned in verse 5). The words "evening" and "morning" are mentioned as well, which relates directly to Night and Day.

Then, in the second passage, which occurred on day 4, God creates the light emitting celestial objects (sun, moon and every other star in the universe), with the purpose of dividing "[14]...the day from the night". Note that this has already been done, by God, on day 1. How can one divide night from day, and then later perform the same action? Night and day must have been one (a strange scenario indeed) on the fourth day for it to involve an action of division. Verse 15 states the purpose of giving "...light upon the earth", but as per verse 3, on day 1, God had already created light, and in verse 5 we already have an impression of morning, day, evening and night.

Also, in verse 17, God set the light emitting celestial objects in this firmament, and one of the purposes of doing so was "[i]...to give light upon the earth. Really? Why then are only a tiny fraction of stars visible to the naked eye, a few thousand visible under the correct conditions, while there are many others which can't be seen (quintillions, if not more)?

Verse 18 continues, stating that the sun and the moon were "...to rule over the day and over the night" respectively. However, the moon spends a significant amount of time moving through the sky during the day.

Now, look at verses 6-8: [1:6] And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. [7] And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters that were above the firmament: and it was so. [8] And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. God spends one sixth of his entire creation effort (day 2) on a solid firmament, which, if it existed, should at least be visible, as well as a considerable impact on any type of space exploration. And what exactly is this "upper" water? The source of rain?

In verses 11 and 12 it is stated the God created plant life. However, the sun had not been created as yet (plant life created on day 3, sun created on day4) to drive the necessary photosynthesis.

Verse 16 shows God creating the sun and moon, and treats the creation of the rest of all the celestial light-emitting objects as an afterthought: "he made the stars also.". On day 1 God created light, which he divided. On day 2 God created a firmament to seperate water. On day 3 God gathers water, names dry land, and creates plant life. On day 4 God created the sun and the moon, and at the end of a long, hard day, as an optional extra, creates quintillions of additional stars (what for?).

Verse 20 states: [1:20] And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. But later: [2:19] And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Therefore, all fowls were created out of water, and all fowls were also created out of the ground.

According to verses 4, 10, 12, 18, 21, 25, and 31, we read that "God saw that it was good". The bible itself states that God did not create perfectly, or even excellently, merely good. Verse 31 states that "it was very good", which shows while each little creation on its own may have been merely good, all together it was very good. Why wasn't each little creation very good? Why weren't they perfect, for that matter?

In verse 25 God creates Man (both male and female), after creating animals (verses 20-21). However, according to Chapter 2, God creates a man (verse 7), then creates animals (verse 19), and afterwards creates a woman (verse 22).

In verse 29 God tells Man : [1:29]...I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. But he says later: [2:17] But of the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it.... Therefore, Adam was not allowed to eat fruit from a tree, and he was allowed to eat all fruit.

According to verse 30, God created all creatures apart from humans as herbivores. However, not all non-human creatures are herbivores.

Looking at verse 31, we see that God has seen "...every thing that he had made...", and he gives it all a very good rating. This includes Man. Some people advocate for a timeless God, and if this were so, God should not have been pleased with himself - after all, he destroyed virtually all life in the flood soon after: [6:5] And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

This shows that:

1) God was happy at the end of chapter 1, on day 6.
2) God was unhappy in chapter 6.

This is not possible with a timeless being.

Going into chapter 2, but ending this post on verse 2, God rested. An omnipotent being does not need rest. A timeless being cannot exist in a state of performing actions and simultaneously resting. A perfect being does not require a resting period, either.

[Andúril]

Continuing from Genesis, Chapter 2:

Verse 17: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thall shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Adam ate from the tree [3:6]. Adam, however, lived through the day, and continued to the age of 930 [5:5].

Verse 20 shows that out of all of the creatures that God had created, none were suitable for Adam. Therefore, in verse 20 God creates a woman with one of Adam's ribs, to solve this problem. An omniscient being would have known beforehand that Adam would not find any suitable creature, and dealt with it.

Moving on to chapter 3, verse 1 tells us that snakes are the most subtle (subtil) beast of the field. They can talk, too. This snake is so clever that it persuades Eve to sin.

According to verse 9: And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? This is problematic, considering God is meant to be both omniscient and omnipresent.

In verse 14 we see God cursing the serpent to crawl on its belly, and eat dust for the rest of its life. Therefore, the snake had been using some other form of transport, perhaps it had legs. Also, snakes are known to eat rodents. Did God curse that particular snake only, and not all other snakes? That would explain the eating habits issue. But not the transportation issue. What did the other snakes do to deserve this curse? They must surely have been just as subtle, and seductive. Note that there is no mention of God taking away the ability of snake-speech, so we should be safe in assuming that all existing snakes (at that time at least) were able to communicate with humans. I wonder what happened to them? Maybe Noah took two of the mute ones...

[3:22] And the Lord God said, Behold the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: However, God said that all fruit was Man's for the eating [1:29], and he also said that he must not eat from the tree of good and evil [2:17]. God does not inhibit the eating of the fruit of the tree of life. If he did not want fruit from that tree to be eaten, he would have mentioned it with the other in [2:17].

Even though Adam and Eve did not die from eating the fruit (as God said they would), it is interesting to think about the complications of the subsequent eating from the tree of life. If God's prophecy came true (which it didn't), and the tree of life lived up to it's name, what would have happened to them?

Also, God mentions the word "us" in this verse, as well as in [1:26] and [11:17], which serves as evidence of multiple Gods, along with:

Exodus [12:12], [15:11], [18:11] and [22:28]
Numbers [33:4]
1 Samuel [6:5] and [28:13]
Psalms [82:1 and 6], [96:4], [97:7] and [136:2]
Jeremiah [10:11]
Micah [4:5]
Zephaniah [2:11]
John [10:33-34]
1 John [5:7]

So the bible advocates multiple Gods. Or does it? Contradicting verses include:

Deuteronomy [4:35 and 39], [6:4] and [32:39]
Isiah [43:10], [44:8], [45:5-6], and [46:9]
Mark [12:29 and 32]
John [17:3]
1 Corinthians [8:6]

Moving on to chapter 4, verse 4 states "...And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:". That goes along with :

Exodus [2:25]
Leviticus [26:9]
2 Kings [13:23]
Psalms [138:6]

...which all tell us of the respect he has for certain people. However:

Deuteronomy [10:17]
2 Corinthians [19:7]
Acts [10:34]
Romans [2:11]
Galatians [2:6]
Ephesians [6:9]
Colossians [3:25]
1 Peter [1:17]

...say otherwise. More contradictions.

Verse 15: And the Lord said unto him, therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

First of all, what does it mean to be punished sevenfold? To be killed seven times?

Secondly, God gave instructions in [9:6] that whoever kills someone should be killed. So his own law is a contradiction to his actions in [4:15].

Then, in verse 16, "...Cain went out from the presence of the Lord..." More evidence for the argument against omnipresence.

Verse 18 stipulates that "...Mehujael begat Methusael: and Mathusael begat Lamech...", but [5:21] says "And Enoch...begat Methuselah (father of Lamech [5:25])" Apparently Methusael and Methuselah are the same person, both being the father of Lamech. Also, in chapter 4, Methusael is Enoch's great-grandson. In chapter 5, Methuselah is Enoch's son. Strange - no. Very strange.

Verses 23 and 24 relate Lamech's statement that it the punishment for killing Cain is sevenfold, the punishment for killing him (Lamech) should (for some reason or another...) be seventy-seven fold.

[Andúril]

Genesis 6:

[6:2] That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

[6:4] There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Sons of God? More than one? This contradicts the following verses:

John [3:16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

[3:18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John [4:9] In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

To throw the spanner in the works, Job mentions the "sons of God" in [1:6] and [2:1].

Why is there no archeological or anthropological evidence of these "giants"?

Genesis [6:3] points out that the lifespan of humans is 120 years. However, Psalms says that age is 70 (80 is possible), and we see in Genesis [11:32] that Terah, Abram (Abraham)'s father, lived to be 205...

[6:5] And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Then, in [7:21-23], he kills everything except a handfull of people and some animals. Now read:

[8:21] ...and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground and more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Firstly, the reason for God repenting is the same reason for God "smiting" every living thing, which makes absolutely no sense...

Secondly, if God is omniscient, he would have known all about the "imagination of man", even before his flood.

According to verses 6 and 7 of chapter 6, God repented. However, according to the following verses God does not repent:

Numbers [23:19]
1 Samuel [15:29]
Ezekiel [24:14]

Then again, all of these verses involve God repenting:

Exodus [32:14] And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Deuteronomy [32:36] For the Lord shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants.
1 Samuel [15:11] It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king.
1 Samuel [15:35] The Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel.
2 Samuel [24:16] The Lord repented of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, it is enough: stay now thine hand.
1 Chronicles [21:15] The Lord beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand.
Jeremiah [15:6] ...I am weary with repenting.
Jeremiah [18:8] ...I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
Jeremiah [26:3] ...That I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them...
Jeremiah [42:10] ...for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.
Amos [7:3] The Lord repented for this...
Jonah [3:10] ...and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them...

Besides all this, why would a timeless, omnibenevolent and omniscient being, repent? I should add perfect to that list.

Looking at Genesis [6:9] ...Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations... However, according to the following verses:

1 Kings [8:46]
2 Chronicles [6:36]
Psalms [14:3] and [53:3]
Romans [3:10, 12 and 23]
Proverbs [20:9]
Ecclesiastes [7:20]
Mark [10:18]
1 John [1:8 and 10]

...there are no good or righteous people, and everyone sins. Then again, these verses indicate differently:

Genesis [7:1]
1 Kings [15:14]
2 Chronicles [15:17]
Job [1:1 and 8] and [2:3]
Luke [1:6] and [2:25]
James [5:16]
2 Peter [2:7-8]
1 John [3:6 and 9]

The above verses indicate good, perfect people that do not sin.

Additionally, if Noah was a perfect man, that means that to be perfect one must be drunk, and naked in the view of family members [9:21-22]

According to [6:16], God tells Noah to make one small window (probably for ventilation), about 18 inches squared. The boat was 135 meters long, 22.5 meters wide, and 13.5 meters high, and the entire boat was ventilated by a tiny window...

Regarding the creatures entering the ark, [6:19] says that two of every kind of animal must go with Noah. Then, in [7:2] Noah is instructed to take some animals in groups of seven. If God is timeless, and omniscient, he wouldn't have given a different instruction.

[Andúril]

According to Genesis [8:13], the earth was dry on the first day of the first month. However, the next verse states that the earth was dried only on the 20th day of the second month.

One wonders what the carnivorous creatures ate after leaving the ark. Surely this would lead to the extinction of certain species? What did these animals eat while in the ark, anyway? Where did they excrete their bodily waste. How was the stench combatted (I know - by that tiny window...)

How exactly did marsupials find their way to Austraila, anway?

[8:21] ...and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake...

But in Malachi [4:6] And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So, in Genesis he will never again curse the earth, but according to Malachi he might.

According to [9:24], Noah woke up and "...knew what his younger son had done unto him." Firstly, Noah had three sons, not two, so "younger" doesn't make much sense. In [5:32], [6:10] and [7:13] Noah's sons are mentioned in the same order, which presumably is that of age: Shem, Ham, and Japeth. Perhaps the "younger" of Noah's sons is Ham. But according to [9:22], Ham only saw his naked father and told his brothers - he did nothing else. His actions resulted in his brothers performing an act that warranted praise from their father. Ham did not do anything to Noah. Perhaps "youngest" is meant by "younger"? In that case, Japeth would be the youngest. But what did he do? He performed a act with Shem, his oldest brother, which warranted praise from Noah. He didn't do anything wrong, as we can see from Noah's blessing. So why does Noah curse Ham's son in verse 25? Ham did nothing wrong, and Canaan had nothing to do with the whole event. Here we have an example of the child receiving the punishment for the father's sin (whatever "sin" it was...). Besides this, according to [6:9] and [7:1], Noah was just and perfect. So does the bible advocate the punishment of the child for the father's wrongdoing?

The answer is no. This is made evident in the following verses:

Deuteronomy [24:16] The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Jeremiah [31:30] But every one shall die for his own iniquity...
Ezekiel [18:20] ...The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Wait. The answer is yes:

Exodus [20:5] and Deuteronomy [5:9] ...I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Exodus [34:7] ...Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Numbers [14:18] ...Visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Deuteronomy [28:18] Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body...
2 Samuel [12:14] ...the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.
2 Sameul [21:6-9] Let seven men of his sons be delivered unto us, and we will hang them up unto the Lord .... And he delivered them into the hands of the Gibeonites, and they hanged them in the hill before the Lord.
1 Kings [2:33] Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever...
1 Kings [21:29] Seest thou how Ahab humbleth himself before me? because he humbleth himself before me, I will not bring the evil in his days: but in his son's days will I bring the evil upon his house.
2 Kings [5:27] The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever...
Isaiah [14:21] Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers...
Jeremiah [16:10-11] ...Wherefore hath the Lord pronounced all this great evil against us? ...Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the Lord...
Jeremiah [32:18] Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them...

So, if we ask the question: Does the Bible advocate the punishment of children for the sins of the parents? The answer is no, and the answer is yes.

Besides that, an affirmative answer does not sit well when advocating an omnibeveloent god, or even a just god.

In 1 Timothy [1:4], as well as in Titus [3:9] we are told to avoid
genealogies. The entire chapter 10 of Genesis is a genealogy.

[11:5] And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. Where exactly did God come down from? Heaven? That means heaven is above us, possibly somewhere in the earth's atmosphere (although probably in a dimension innaccesible to us...). Why couldn't God see the city and tower from where he was? A sign of non-omnipotence. Why did he have to see it at all? Didn't he know what was happening? A sign of non-omniscience. Also, very untimeless-like.

I can't help myself asking the question: can God see through brick walls? Nevermind...

According to verse 6, seeing as all of the earth's inhabitants spoke one language, that meant that they could do anything they imagined. In other words, they had the attribute of omnipotence. However, this omnipotence was not as powerful as God's omnipotence, because they were unable to abate God's scattering.

According to verse 7, God decides to "...confound their language...", probably because he did not want them to be omnipotent (as he was). This doesn't bode well for the argument of free will, because God purposefully scatters these people in the next verse, thereby changing the course of their future actions.

[emplynx]

I don't personally mind you doing this, because I am hard headed and usually ignore anti-christian arguments, but this still gets...
----.-""-.emplynx's
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[Rána Eressëa]

First of all, let me give you the Christian argument (though I am not a Christian myself): He is GOD. He can do ANYTHING he WANTS and it WORKS. Pretty enlightening, eh?

Next, I do not believe that a timeless, self-existant being that is called "perfect" would be able to feel ANY sort of HUMAN emotions such as happiness, unhappiness, wrath, jealously, etc. But in the bible he clearly embodies ALL of these human qualities, and yet we ourselves embody all of these qualities and are called imperfect. Ironic, isn't it?

[galadriel88]

*opens her mouth to say something, then shuts it*

Nevermind, I'm not gonna stir up a flame war here. I along with emplynx give it a Doomed Thread Award.

[HOBBIT]

Um. Is there a point to this? There are already two threads where you can happily debate the existance of god. Please do so there. People aren't reading your stuff? tough. hey that rhymes. why start a new topic??? but seriously, people choose to read and respond to what they want. if no one is interested in dicsussing what you want to or just takes it as humor, so what?

Isn't this just a bunch of bible quotes and proving how pointless they are? You can do that in the anti-theist thread! You even say that you have already posted this there.

So i am sorry, this does get padlocked.

if there is something that I am missing here, please pm me and I will see if closing this topic was a mistake....