Brooks vs Tolkien - A study in viciousness.

Grey_Wolf · 11-24-2005, 05:50 PM

In reading Terry Brooks Shannara books I've noticed a certain viciousness in the killing of the characters which is not present in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.

What think ye?

Butterbeer · 11-24-2005, 06:02 PM

I don't really know Doc, but it's one hell of a good title for a thread.

**Nurvingiel** · 11-25-2005, 02:14 AM

I completely agree. The body count is very high amongst named characters in Mr. Brooks' books.

I think it's not so much a viciousness on Terry Brooks' part, but a reflection of the harsh world his characters inhabit. There are simply many more extremely hideous monsters and violent magic in the Four Lands. (eg. The Voyage of the Jerle Shannara)

Lief Erikson · 11-25-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

I completely agree. The body count is very high amongst named characters in Mr. Brooks' books.

I think it's not so much a viciousness on Terry Brooks' part, but a reflection of the harsh world his characters inhabit. There are simply many more extremely hideous monsters and violent magic in the Four Lands. (eg. The Voyage of the Jerle Shannara)

Technically, that didn't take place in the Four Lands

.

Curubethion · 11-26-2005, 12:14 AM

I think you're right about Tolkien...but he was after all about 65-not the type of guy to be putting in gory details

. (and it was after all WWII era. We're a lot more desensitized to violence now)

brownjenkins · 11-26-2005, 08:03 PM

i've only read the first few and i can't remember any main character dying at all... maybe i missed something

**Nurvingiel** · 11-27-2005, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lief Erikson

Technically, that didn't take place in the Four Lands

.

Okay, the Four Lands and surrounding oceans and islands.

The main character doesn't die usually Brownie, but most of the "red shirts" and a number of supporting characters often get it. This happens more in the later books as opposed to The Sword of Shannara.

Grey_Wolf · 11-27-2005, 07:08 AM

I am at the moment reading The First King of Shannara. A Skullbearer and his minions have ripped apart the Druids and the Elven Royal Family. Pretty gory.

inked · 11-30-2005, 08:34 PM

Tolkien was disinclined to be gory because he was in WWI. See the Letters.

Grey_Wolf · 12-01-2005, 09:09 AM

I only have HOME & UT, but perhaps I can borrow the letter-book at the library.

And you'r quite correct. After going through WWI, was gory enough. writing gory details in his books would not do at all.

**Nurvingiel** · 12-02-2005, 06:26 AM

Plus, maybe writing gore just wasn't his style anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf

I am at the moment reading The First King of Shannara. A Skullbearer and his minions have ripped apart the Druids and the Elven Royal Family. Pretty gory.

I remember that scene.

Yeah, Brooks wins at gore and named character death.

Grey_Wolf · 12-02-2005, 06:28 PM

He sure does. And Tolkien isn't, as you say, a gory story-teller, which is good, because his writing style lends the fantasy category a dash of class compared to the more modern writers.

Lief Erikson · 12-11-2005, 04:56 PM

On the other hand, we do have scenes like Frodo approaching Mount Doom, and Frodo in Mordor, and the Nazgul's words as he describes what he's going to do to Eowyn. Those are all fairly graphic . . . though I agree, they aren't on a par with Brooks' "First King" violence.

Jon S. · 01-28-2006, 10:00 PM

Numerous sentient creatures - huge numbers - die throughout the LOTR - the Sim, too - so I guess I don't understand the point. Are you suggesting writing about death in a relatively more sanitized manner makes it less vicious? I think often the opposite is true.

11-24-2005, 05:50 PM	#1
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	Brooks vs Tolkien - A study in viciousness. In reading Terry Brooks Shannara books I've noticed a certain viciousness in the killing of the characters which is not present in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. What think ye?

11-26-2005, 12:14 AM	#5
Curubethion Fenway Ranger, Lord of Red Sox Nation Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: College! Posts: 1,976	I think you're right about Tolkien...but he was after all about 65-not the type of guy to be putting in gory details . (and it was after all WWII era. We're a lot more desensitized to violence now) __________________ Adventure...betrayal...heroism... Atharon: where heroes are born. My wife once said to me—when I'd been writing for ten or fifteen years—that I could always go back to being a nuclear engineer. And I said to her, 'Harriet, would you let someone who quit his job to go write fantasy anywhere near your nuclear reactor? I wouldn't!' (Robert Jordan)

11-26-2005, 08:03 PM	#6
brownjenkins Advocatus Diaboli Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Reality Posts: 3,767	i've only read the first few and i can't remember any main character dying at all... maybe i missed something __________________ Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.

11-30-2005, 08:34 PM	#9
inked Elf Lord Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: sikeston, MO, usa, earth, sol Posts: 3,114	Tolkien was disinclined to be gory because he was in WWI. See the Letters. __________________ Inked "Aslan is not a tame lion." CSL/LWW "The new school [acts] as if it required...courage to say a blasphemy. There is only one thing that requires real courage to say, and that is a truism." GK Chesterton "And there is always the danger of allowing people to suppose that our modern times are so wholly unlike any other times that the fundamental facts about man's nature have wholly changed with changing circumstances." Dorothy L. Sayers, 1 Sept. 1941

12-11-2005, 04:56 PM	#13
Lief Erikson Elf Lord Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6,343	On the other hand, we do have scenes like Frodo approaching Mount Doom, and Frodo in Mordor, and the Nazgul's words as he describes what he's going to do to Eowyn. Those are all fairly graphic . . . though I agree, they aren't on a par with Brooks' "First King" violence. __________________ If the world has indeed, as I have said, been built of sorrow, it has been built by the hands of love, because in no other way could the soul of man, for whom the world was made, reach the full stature of its perfection. ~Oscar Wilde, written from prison Oscar Wilde's last words: "Either the wallpaper goes, or I do."

11-24-2005, 06:02 PM	#2
Butterbeer Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: here and there Posts: 3,514	I don't really know Doc, but it's one hell of a good title for a thread.

11-27-2005, 07:08 AM	#8
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	I am at the moment reading The First King of Shannara. A Skullbearer and his minions have ripped apart the Druids and the Elven Royal Family. Pretty gory.

12-01-2005, 09:09 AM	#10
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	I only have HOME & UT, but perhaps I can borrow the letter-book at the library. And you'r quite correct. After going through WWI, was gory enough. writing gory details in his books would not do at all.

12-02-2005, 06:28 PM	#12
Grey_Wolf Elf Lord Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mirkwood, well actually I live in North-west Scania, Sweden Posts: 9,481	He sure does. And Tolkien isn't, as you say, a gory story-teller, which is good, because his writing style lends the fantasy category a dash of class compared to the more modern writers.

01-28-2006, 10:00 PM	#14
Jon S. Elven Warrior Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 455	Numerous sentient creatures - huge numbers - die throughout the LOTR - the Sim, too - so I guess I don't understand the point. Are you suggesting writing about death in a relatively more sanitized manner makes it less vicious? I think often the opposite is true.

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