The Michael Vick Ordeal

[hectorberlioz]

First of all: I don't condone animal cruelty. But I just want to observe that Michael Vick sure seems to be getting more vilification than most murderers. Nobody is on Vick's side, and what we hear are insipid speeches, like Senator Robert Byrd's which basically condemned Michael Vick to hell.

In my humble opinion, we are all guilty ("Yes! WE ARE ALL GUILTY! WE ALL HAVE AIDS! WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!")...we are guilty of focusing our anger on all the wrong people: convicted criminals are being let go regularly, and continue their pursuit of sick happiness...all the while we are busy condemning Paris Hilton's drunk driving (ok, and Aal Gore III's too), condemning the mythological murder of zebras and unicorns, and condemning Michael Vick to hell for his participation in illegal dog-fighting.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this merits much punishment. It's nothin some time off the field, a couple of fines, and plenty of hatred from PETA won't fix.

Why are we making demons out of sinners, and making repentants out of convicts?

[Insidious Rex]

Well it all comes down to how involved he was. If he was just a big money gambler in the "sport" then yeah I dont see that warranting years in prison. But they are talking about pursuing racketeering which leads me to believe he had some kind of foundational roll in all this and if so then yeah he needs to be put away for a while. A few years I would think although he may strike a plea deal before the day is out for a year max and some huge fines (which he can afford of course). Then lets say he serves a year in jail. Will the NFL make his ban (of at least a year) concurrent with time served? Or will he be sitting out a season after he gets out of jail. This has the potential for completely destroying his career which would be a real waste because hes such a talent. And hes not necessarily your typical Pac Man Jones type NFL thug. Hes always been fairly upstanding (despite his flipping off the fans incident and the secret compartment soda incident). Hes even poured hundreds of thousands of his own dollars into the impoverished neighborhoods he grew up in without seeking any press about it. But promoting dog fighting needs to be punished. It’s a disgusting thing to do and how stupid do you have to be to do that stuff when you are a big time NFL star. So Im thinking hell go away from the sport for a few years but youll see him again and hopefully all this will be behind him.

I do find it ironic that we are talking about a year in jail for partaking in extreme cruelty to animals and this NBA ref is looking at 25 years for gambling on some games.

[brownjenkins]

It's a bit blown out of proportion, but that's what happens to stars. Let's wait and see what kind of sentence he gets before we cry foul. My guess is that it will be a relatively minor one.

[OldHippie]

Personally I think he should be tossed into a dog fighting pit and let the beasts loose. An eye for an eye in my book. Anyone who would allow an animal to be treated this way is garbage in my book. That goes for cock fighting and the age old tradition of bulfighting too.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Insidious Rex

Well it all comes down to how involved he was. If he was just a big money gambler in the "sport" then yeah I dont see that warranting years in prison. But they are talking about pursuing racketeering which leads me to believe he had some kind of foundational roll in all this and if so then yeah he needs to be put away for a while. A few years I would think although he may strike a plea deal before the day is out for a year max and some huge fines (which he can afford of course). Then lets say he serves a year in jail. Will the NFL make his ban (of at least a year) concurrent with time served? Or will he be sitting out a season after he gets out of jail. This has the potential for completely destroying his career which would be a real waste because hes such a talent. And hes not necessarily your typical Pac Man Jones type NFL thug. Hes always been fairly upstanding (despite his flipping off the fans incident and the secret compartment soda incident). Hes even poured hundreds of thousands of his own dollars into the impoverished neighborhoods he grew up in without seeking any press about it. But promoting dog fighting needs to be punished. It’s a disgusting thing to do and how stupid do you have to be to do that stuff when you are a big time NFL star. So Im thinking hell go away from the sport for a few years but youll see him again and hopefully all this will be behind him.

1) Didn't know that part of the story...hmm.

2) No kidding. Pacman's new name around here is Rainman...since he loves tossing money around at parties

I do find it ironic that we are talking about a year in jail for partaking in extreme cruelty to animals and this NBA ref is looking at 25 years for gambling on some games.

That was pretty stupid too.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this merits much punishment. It's nothin some time off the field, a couple of fines, and plenty of hatred from PETA won't fix.

If what this article says about the court papers is true, I don't think 'some time off the field and a couple of fines' is going to cut it for me. True, he's a public figure and is going to feel it more than the next guy, but if what I read is true, IMO he deserves every punishment that is coming to him. It's disgusting, what they did to those dogs. I have zero sympathy for him.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

If what this article says about the court papers is true, I don't think 'some time off the field and a couple of fines' is going to cut it for me. True, he's a public figure and is going to feel it more than the next guy, but if what I read is true, IMO he deserves every punishment that is coming to him. It's disgusting, what they did to those dogs. I have zero sympathy for him.

It's a gang thing. The animals are brutalized, sure. Well, so are Perdue chickens. But the fighting itself has had huge ramifications in neighborhoods...where pit bulls are being housed and "trained" to be crazy and dangerous.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html

Anyone taking money from sports fans to support this should be retired.

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

First of all: I don't condone animal cruelty. But I just want to observe that Michael Vick sure seems to be getting more vilification than most murderers. Nobody is on Vick's side, and what we hear are insipid speeches, like Senator Robert Byrd's which basically condemned Michael Vick to hell.

In my humble opinion, we are all guilty ("Yes! WE ARE ALL GUILTY! WE ALL HAVE AIDS! WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER!")...we are guilty of focusing our anger on all the wrong people: convicted criminals are being let go regularly, and continue their pursuit of sick happiness...all the while we are busy condemning Paris Hilton's drunk driving (ok, and Aal Gore III's too), condemning the mythological murder of zebras and unicorns, and condemning Michael Vick to hell for his participation in illegal dog-fighting.

First of all, convicted criminals who have served their time are let go regularly. That's how the justice system works. Do you really want to live in a Les Misérables-esque country where stealing a loaf of bread gets you five years?

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this merits much punishment. It's nothin some time off the field, a couple of fines, and plenty of hatred from PETA won't fix.

Why are we making demons out of sinners, and making repentants out of convicts?

You don't think brutality towards animals merits much punishment?

Originally Posted by OldHippie

Personally I think he should be tossed into a dog fighting pit and let the beasts loose. An eye for an eye in my book. Anyone who would allow an animal to be treated this way is garbage in my book. That goes for cock fighting and the age old tradition of bulfighting too.

Delenn: Then you support a system that would leave the world blind and toothless?
Garibaldi: Not everyone, just the bad guys.

</Babylon 5 nerd>

Eärniel and Sistercousinandaunt, I agree 100%.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Nurvingiel

First of all, convicted criminals who have served their time are let go regularly. That's how the justice system works. Do you really want to live in a Les Misérables-esque country where stealing a loaf of bread gets you five years?

Nurv, not every case is like that.

You don't think brutality towards animals merits much punishment?

Before I knew he was part of a big ring, and helping to run/fund it, I would have said that NO, a year in jail was a little much for dog fighting.
Now that I know he was deeper into it, I think he does deserve it.

[sisterandcousinandaunt]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Before I knew he was part of a big ring, and helping to run/fund it, I would have said that NO, a year in jail was a little much for dog fighting.
Now that I know he was deeper into it, I think he does deserve it.

It's disappointing, isn't it? I mean, not Michael Vick personally, because I wouldn't know him from a hole in the ground, except for this.

But you'd hope people who have the resources and opportunities like this guy had would use them a little more wisely.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by sisterandcousinandaunt

It's disappointing, isn't it? I mean, not Michael Vick personally, because I wouldn't know him from a hole in the ground, except for this.

But you'd hope people who have the resources and opportunities like this guy had would use them a little more wisely.

Actually Sis, he did. He was a big donor to charities. A big name in Georgia for helping the kids...

[Nurvingiel]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

Actually Sis, he did. He was a big donor to charities. A big name in Georgia for helping the kids...

He seems like an all-around decent guy... except for his tendency to encourage dogs to maul each other to death for enjoyment.

Other than that. You know.

[Lotesse]

Oh, yeah yeah yeah, big donor to charities, big helper blahblahblah - who cares. He is a piece of garbage. "Michael Vick ORDEAL???" Give me a break. What a friggin joke. He is trash, pure and simple. Trash. Trash. Some human beings are garbage, utter trash, and he belongs in that category. I hope he gets decent prison time, the piece of garbage that he is. Fines, sure, but IN ADDITION TO big ol' fines, he needs to do some serious time, and I mean more than 15 months in a nice, hardcore grimy state prison wwith other pieces of filth like himself.

[Lotesse]

Originally Posted by hectorberlioz

First of all: I don't condone animal cruelty.

Yeah, you do. You started a thread in defense of Michael Vick, who is being charged with all KINDS of animal cruelty and animal murder crap, calling it the "Michael Vick 'Ordeal'" which leads one to believe, that, FIRST OF ALL, you DO condone animal cruelty.

Which does not surprise me, but whatever.

[OldHippie]

deleted by me.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Oh, yeah yeah yeah, big donor to charities, big helper blahblahblah - who cares.

Well apparently Sis was wondering, and so I responded with what I knew.

[hectorberlioz]

Originally Posted by Lotesse

Yeah, you do. You started a thread in defense of Michael Vick, who is being charged with all KINDS of animal cruelty and animal murder crap, calling it the "Michael Vick 'Ordeal'" which leads one to believe, that, FIRST OF ALL, you DO condone animal cruelty.

Which does not surprise me, but whatever.

I started a thread that DID NOT defend Michael Vick's animal cruelty, I started one that said everryone was overreacting and/or using the Michael Vick case to look popular i.e. Robert "KKK" Byrd. And BEFORE I knew that he was into it big, I thought a year in jail was a bit much...but GET THIS Lotesse! I changed my mind.

[Lotesse]

You did? You changed your mind? I am shocked - and very, very impressed! Seriously! Well, that's awesome to hear, Hector, very good. Yes, pleople like Vick, bad bad bad and deserve plenty prison time for doing such wicked things like that.

[Earniel]

Easy now, people. No need to get too fired up.

[The Gaffer]

Hehehe. This thread should be framed. Maybe even get into the Internet Hall of Fame as the first time anyone has every changed their mind online. Hooray for hector.

Still, I agree with your initial sentiment.

(Maybe the thread should be framed twice?)

In that there are a bunch of double standards around animal cruelty. The media will happily run a horror story like this then cut to adverts exhorting you to rush down the local McDs and chow down on a Finger Lickin McHormone Sandwich.