Journeys discussion thread

[Rían]

I'm thinking (and I know some people here who are "in the know" might think I'm crazy!) of starting up a new RPG in the style of one that we did several years ago. It's actually more of a cooperative writing thing than the usual RPG. We each would write very short chapters or episodes, often using another person's character, giving any person whose character was used complete edit rights to preserve the integrity of their character. What I liked about it was that it didn't have that "choppy" feel of many RPGs, because we would write complete little episodes.

Here is a sample of one episode that I wrote:

Early Tuesday morning
in front of the University Library

"My name is RÃ*an, and it is a pleasure to meet a fellow book-lover,â€� she said graciously. “I’m so glad that the library has such a dedicated and careful caretaker now. When I read a book, I feel a kinship with the author, and even with the book itself – they seem to have their own personalities, don’t they? Reading a book is almost like being with a friend, and one can never have enough friends!â€�

“Indeed, I have heard that saying, and imagine it’s true,â€� said Sapthân absently, as he carefully opened the book and examined the inside of the front cover. RÃ*an bit her lip and vowed to speak more carefully; he did not seem like a man with an over-abundance of friends. She spoke up quickly to answer his question and to hopefully cover over her possible faux pas.

“It’s hard to say which are my favorite verses; I love them all, and depending upon what is happening in my life, sometimes I favor one, and sometimes another. But this, I think,� turning to a page near the middle, “is my favorite illustration. Is it not lovely?�

Sapthân murmured his agreement – he was enraptured with the rare and ancient book. There were not many like it left in the world today. He exclaimed sadly over a slightly damaged area, and RÃ*an said, “I’m afraid that I’m not as careful a caretaker of my book as you would be, but I know that my parents would rather it was worn out in love than preserved in coldness. But indeed, I am very careful with it, for it is one of the few links I have with my parents, whom I loved dearly. And it has held up amazingly well over all these long years, for we had highly skilled craftsmen in Gondolin who knew how to make books that lasted for our long lives.â€�

“Ah, I’m afraid that many secrets were lost with the Fall of Gondolin,� said Sapthân with a curious expression on his face.

RÃ*an nodded, and then turned to another section. “I think this is my favorite verse, at least now,â€� she said, “but more than the verses themselves, I love my father’s writing – it is strong and passionate, open-hearted and lively, as he was. Look how he forms this letter – and this one!â€�

“Very unique – an excellent example of a personal and individualized family gift. I have not seen many books from Gondolin, and it is indeed a pleasure to see one again.�

“Oh, you should have seen the libraries we had there ... but they are gone now,â€� said RÃ*an sadly. “King Turgon even had some manuscripts from the Blessed Realm, and so did several other nobles. There is a song I know that I think you would understand - one man had some manuscripts that he prized greatly and that were lost in the crossing of the Helcaraxë, and he wrote a beautiful lament for them.â€� She paused a moment, and then sang softly,

“Go Cuan Bhéil Inse casadh mé
Cois Góilin aoibhinn Dairbhre
Mar a seoltar flÃ*t na farraige
Thar sáile I gcéin.
I Portmagee do stadas seal,
Faoi thuairim intinn maitheasa
D’fhonn bheith seal ad eatarthu
Mar mháistir léinn.
is gearr gur chuala an eachtara
Ag cách mo léan!
Gur i mBord Eoghain Fhinn do chailleathas
An t-árthach tréan.
Do phreab mo chroÃ* le hatuirse
I dtaobh loinge an taoisign chalma
Go mb'fhearrde an tÃ*r Ã* 'sheasamh seal
Do ráib an tséin.
“That is only the first verse – there are many, as is the way of the Eldar! I know you can’t understand the words, for few today know my mother-tongue, but can you hear his sorrow?� she asked, and saw in his eyes that he did.

“The Darkness has caused so much sorrow,� she said sadly and looked away. “He whom we name Morgoth, for he has forfeited the right to his first name, was the cause of the destruction of so much beauty …�

Sapthân tensed up, but RÃ*an wasn’t looking at him and didn’t notice.

“The Dark One – I will not name him the Dark Lord, as some do, for he is no rightful Lord …�

She felt Sapthan stir, and turned to look at him.

Rian was my character, and Sapthân was another person's character. When the posts were more complex, like this one, I always checked with the other person via PM before posting the episode, but if it was just a little use of someone else's character, I posted and gave edit rights.

Anyway, it worked really well for a long time until several problems arose, some of which I won't mention because there were a lot of hurt feelings involved. But mainly the problems arose when a few of the people refused to give edit rights to the owners of the characters they used, or tried to take over another person's storyline (like person A wanted a break-in in a castle to happen, and person B thwarts it by just happening to have a guard come by right then, and person A then has another bandit bonk the guard to try to keep his storyline, then person B adds another guard to try to thwart the storyline, etc. etc.) Now part of the fun of RPGs is surprises, but also part of the fun is to invent something and carry it through. So anyway, those were two of the main problems.

(con't)

[Rían]

Anyway, I was thinking of starting up something like it again because I miss the writing, but right off the bat I would name myself as RPG-master, with the final decision rights over story disputes (just because SOMEONE has to do this if we really can't decide as a group) and state very clearly that the character owner ALWAYS has final say about any use of their character, and for others to please respect the storyline of others - surprises are fun and welcome, but don't just destroy someone's intended storyline idea. Also, it would be very canon-mindful, and humor is very welcome but shouldn't be slapstick or ridiculous. And another thing is a promise to really, really try to make at least one post a week, or one post every two weeks at the worst - I'd rather have a not-so-perfect post once every week or two than a real gem once a month, because it's frustrating to have to wait for others. Of course we'll understand if something comes up, but then please understand that we might need to carry your character for you, or you might need to remove your character, if it's holding others up for a really long time.

Since I moved from California, where I was born and grew up, to Arizona, and since I've always loved Gondolin, the idea I had was this: a story about some of the survivors from Gondolin several years down the road. They've helped the sick and injured; they've made it safe to Cirdan (this particular group, at least); yet their hearts are restless - they've left their home and they don't feel at home where they're at now, and they aren't ready to go over the sea yet. So they get an idea to go on a journey - visit the major elven kingdoms and see the beauty in each, and see if their hearts can find rest in any of them. Of course they'll have some adventures on the way!

Another theme I'd like to work in is the dreams of the elves - how they're so vivid, and sometimes even others can see them, IIRC. I'd love to have "dream sequences", so to speak, from the Mooters here, showing their ideas of what Gondolin was like.

Anyway, I've been thinking about it and wanted to float the idea and see if anyone is interested

EDIT - another thing I thought is that the characters would be more of a high-class-type of elf, so that they would have access to the Elven leadership of the places that they visit.

[Earniel]

I might be interested, if enough time can be found on my part. What time-frame are we talking here? If I recall correctly there wasn't much left standing in the first aera of the Elven realms after the fall of Gondolin. So are we talking second age or third? I don't think fourth is much of an option.

And can non-Elven characters be played as well? Their nature will of course depend on the time-frame that is chosen.

[Rían]

Probably Second Age - I was thinking of them visiting Lorien and Greenwood and maybe Rivendell and/or Eregion. I'm rusty on my dates, but I think mid-S.A. might work.

Non-Elven characters would be workable, although it would take some doing, esp. since there's a lot of travel and Elves are the hardier travellers. But I'm very open to any workable ideas, and can make the elves the type that are interested in other races.

But I haven't seen much interest in this style of RPG so far, so maybe it just isn't a good time now.

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Probably Second Age - I was thinking of them visiting Lorien and Greenwood and maybe Rivendell and/or Eregion. I'm rusty on my dates, but I think mid-S.A. might work.

That sounds feasable. Might be interesting to see how the Elven realms were pre-ring era.

Non-Elven characters would be workable, although it would take some doing, esp. since there's a lot of travel and Elves are the hardier travellers. But I'm very open to any workable ideas, and can make the elves the type that are interested in other races.

I mostly asked because I know not everyone is interested in playing Elves. Dwarves might be a stretch too far, but Númenoreans, from before the fall for example, could be acceptable companions for Elves.

But I haven't seen much interest in this style of RPG so far, so maybe it just isn't a good time now.

You might have scared them off with the long example post. I dare say it's a little more advanced writing than what most of the usual RP crowd here is used to. So it may be advisable to eventually start out (if enough people can be found) with shorter posts and work up from there. But who knows, given some more time, you might get some more interest.

[Rían]

oh, that's ok - I'm not sure if I want to do it myself! I just wanted to float the idea, and if there was interest, then great, and if not, then it wouldn't be a big deal.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

You might have scared them off with the long example post. I dare say it's a little more advanced writing than what most of the usual RP crowd here is used to. So it may be advisable to eventually start out (if enough people can be found) with shorter posts and work up from there. But who knows, given some more time, you might get some more interest.

I'm interested, to some extent - I like the more substantial posts better than the very short ones we often get in traditional RPGs. What scares me is not so much the long post as such, but the request that we try to post something like that EVERY WEEK. Although I see your point - posting once a month isn't very conductive to the flow of a story.

But if we can emphasize the TRY TO, and perhaps start with something not quite as ambitious, lengthwise, the idea appeals to me ...

And as always I'm then thinking which of my family members could be suitable for being put into such a story.

One of my main characters, Rameldir, is himself a survivor of Gondolin - but he's not a wandering soul, he's well established in Elvish high society. First in the court of Gil-galad at Lindon, and later with Elrond at Rivendell, if this is later than SA 1697, when Rivendell was established. They would meet him and have some interesting talks, I'm sure, but he wouldn't be part of the group.

Then I've got a couple of survivors from Nargothrond - but they are happily married by mid-SA, and not feeling any need for such a journey. They have got a daughter, though - would she be a possible candidate for joining the group? She is born early SA, so she is not one of the survivors herself. I haven't played her anywhere, only her future husband and daughter - so she could be played by several writers without me necessarily feeling too possessive of her.

Or I suppose I could even create someone completely new - preferably another survivor of Nargothrond, though. Brother of the happy wife and uncle of the daughter.

[Rían]

We'd definitely emphasize the "try" part of every week - once a week would be a goal to shoot for and hopefully hit a good number of times, but not a must - life happens! For me, I found that the writing came prettily easily, because I wrote most of it in my head during times in the car, in line at the bank, etc. etc.

One thing I forgot to mention, and that your post put into my mind, is that I was picturing the elven characters as rather "high society" so they can have access to the rulers of the various kingdoms, so your Rameldir would fit in really well, esp. since he's a survivor of Gondolin. Why not consider him taking a "road trip" for a bit? Anyway, toss it around in your head for a bit and see if you like it - I'm not in a rush. I really like the Gondolin theme and the idea of them kind of taking a "last look" around the various elven settlements, looking for something that somehow lets them feel at home again, although they don't know what that something is yet. Maybe Rameldir could meet up with the group and kind of catch their wandering bug and decide to join up, not even quite sure what it is that's drawing him, knowing that he could always go back. I don't know - just some thoughts.

The daughter might work, too - you'd have to come up with a good reason for her leaving home and joining the group, which I'm sure you could do. I'd prefer the Gondolin background, but she could have her own reasons for feeling restless and wanting to look around the world.

Maybe I'll just draft an initial concept post to show what I'm thinking. I'll probably use my previous characters from Gondolin.

[Varnafindë]

Would you place this after Rivendell was established?

Rameldir could feel responsible for the group, or be sent as an escort by Elrond - or there could be a better reason.

He was only a child when Gondolin fell, only ten years old. So he doesn't remember as much as he would have liked to. I put him right into the royal family, by creating a daughter of Angrod as his mother, marrying into Gondolin and giving her life to save her son - Rameldir was orphaned at the fall of Gondolin, and Tuor and Idril fostered him.

It's been ages since he met someone who remembered the city of his childhood. He will listen eagerly to everything they can tell him, to everything that can rekindle his own memories of the lost city.

Then the daughter - her name is NólemÃ*re, btw, easier to refer to her that way - knows Rameldir, too. Her parents (the survivors of Nargothrond) were friends of his, but they moved to Lorinand when "many Sindar and Noldor went to dwell" there before SA 1200. She could well feel restless - she later gets married, but only towards the end of SA.

None of them will be with the group from the beginning of the story, but they may both meet up with the group (at different times, possibly) as the story grows.

[Rían]

Yes, I was thinking of putting it after Rivendell was established.

I'll have to recheck my ME geography - I'm a bit rusty, and geography was never my strong point ... but they could go to Rivendell first.

[Rían]

Here is the draft concept: an idea

[Earniel]

Well, well, well, Tyaron and Alagos sure get around, from Tharbad to Amon Sûl to Mithlond. How are you keeping their timelines straight?

I'll have to think about a character and check up on what is actually happening in the second age.

[Rían]

I never thought of re-using characters until Angmar suggested it over at t'other place, and it seems like other people do it, too - makes sense, when you've spent time developing them! And actually, I was thinking your Earniel character from the other RPG would fit in well ...

I don't care if they conflict with other RPGs or not, though, as long as they're consistent within each one - actually, for the first one I had made Alagos half-elven and given him a sister, and I dropped that for our other one. I don't know for this one - I think the sister is dead for good but I might stay with the half-elven because it's canon that there were possibly a few more.

Anyway, I had a writing fit come on, and worked it out

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I never thought of re-using characters until Angmar suggested it over at t'other place, and it seems like other people do it, too - makes sense, when you've spent time developing them! And actually, I was thinking your Earniel character from the other RPG would fit in well ...

I don't care if they conflict with other RPGs or not, though, as long as they're consistent within each one -

I'm reusing mine all the time - I made a thread here at Writer's Workshop to collect all that is known about Varna's Family History in one place, there you can see who's been played where.

I keep mine consistent, though - what I've posted somewhere, is part of the person's history from then onwards.

The only thing that cannot be consistent, is Rameldir's family connection to Gil-galad. That depends on each threadmaster - whether he/she uses one or the other of Gil-galad's lineage versions. I prefer Tolkien's later version, but I don't insist on it if the threadmaster uses the other.
(Which one will you go by here, btw?)

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

I never thought of re-using characters until Angmar suggested it over at t'other place, and it seems like other people do it, too - makes sense, when you've spent time developing them! And actually, I was thinking your Earniel character from the other RPG would fit in well ...

Haha, maybe. I've only took her as a character in the nazgul game as a favour to Val. I may never have done it anyway if the game hadn't started out as a humourous one but changed to serious after I had introduced my character. And since the way that game went down, I decided she should stay a fan fic character, not a role play character. I wasn't entirely pleased with the way I played her anyway. She'd fit reasonably well because she's from Gondolin, but she doesn't have the required wanderlust. The Sea-Elf side of her was all too pleased to live next to the sea so she'd have no valid reason to go exploring.

So I think I'll make a new character for this game, although I may still go for a member of the House of Fountains. I almost never re-use RP characters anyway. So to each their own.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

The only thing that cannot be consistent, is Rameldir's family connection to Gil-galad. That depends on each threadmaster - whether he/she uses one or the other of Gil-galad's lineage versions. I prefer Tolkien's later version, but I don't insist on it if the threadmaster uses the other.
(Which one will you go by here, btw?)

Ahh, the Gil-Galad question rears its interesting head! I have no preference; I give the call to you. Actually, come to think of it, I prefer the later version slightly, so we can go with that.

Speaking of questions like Gil-Galad, I'll be going with Balrogs like in the Fall of Gondolin in BoLT 2 - IOW, fightable. I had an interesting idea about Balrog wounds, and in order for that to work, a Balrog has to be survivable!

Originally Posted by JRRT, in the Fall of Gondolin

...but the men of Rog ... came at those Balrogs and smote them grevojsly, for all they had whips of flame and claws of steel, and were in stature very great. They battered them into nought, or catching at their whips wielded these against them, that they tore them even as they had aforetime torn the Gnomes; and the number of Balrogs that perished was a marvel and dread to the hosts of Melko, for ere that day never had any of the Balrogs been slain by the hand of Elves or Men.

And really, my characters have been consistent except those two things I noted, which I wasn't sure I wanted to keep and had only used once, anyway.

Originally Posted by Eärniel

Haha, maybe. I've only took her as a character in the nazgul game as a favour to Val. I may never have done it anyway if the game hadn't started out as a humourous one but changed to serious after I had introduced my character. And since the way that game went down, I decided she should stay a fan fic character, not a role play character. I wasn't entirely pleased with the way I played her anyway. She'd fit reasonably well because she's from Gondolin, but she doesn't have the required wanderlust. The Sea-Elf side of her was all too pleased to live next to the sea so she'd have no valid reason to go exploring.

That's true ... OK, new character for you! *sends Eärniel to the character store*

So I think I'll make a new character for this game, although I may still go for a member of the House of Fountains. I almost never re-use RP characters anyway. So to each their own.

Hear, hear! *raises glass of miruvor*


n.b. - hey, out of curiosity, I right-clicked on "miruvor" and hit "Look up in dictionary" - and it's in the dictionary!!!!! Go Tolkien!!!!

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

*sends Eärniel to the character store*

*goes shopping and promises to show off what she might buy*

n.b. - hey, out of curiosity, I right-clicked on "miruvor" and hit "Look up in dictionary" - and it's in the dictionary!!!!! Go Tolkien!!!!

I wonder if there are recipes for Miruvor like there are many for Lembas among Tolkien fans. It could be ... interesting to try them out.

[Varnafindë]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

Ahh, the Gil-Galad question rears its interesting head! I have no preference; I give the call to you. Actually, come to think of it, I prefer the later version slightly, so we can go with that.

Very good - Rameldir and Gil-galad are first cousins then. Gil-galad's father Orodreth was the brother of Rameldir's mother Arindis.

I think there are two reasons why I reuse my characters. One, I'm too lazy to think up a new one every time. Two, I think it's fun to explore more eras of their lives, and fun to keep them all in one extended family.

And I have no preference about Balrogs - I seem to have missed a good RPG by not joining Entmoot years ago - so fightable they are.

[Rían]

Originally Posted by Eärniel

*goes shopping and promises to show off what she might buy*

*hands Eärniel a shopping cart*

OK, I wired some money into your account. Aisle 1 is the house of the Golden Flower; Aisle 2 is the folk of the White Wing; let's see ... Aisle 5 is the people of the Fountain. Just avoid Aisle 13 - the house of the Mole ...

I wonder if there are recipes for Miruvor like there are many for Lembas among Tolkien fans. It could be ... interesting to try them out.

I'm sure there's some floating around

Originally Posted by Varnafindë

Very good - Rameldir and Gil-galad are first cousins then. Gil-galad's father Orodreth was the brother of Rameldir's mother Arindis.

Sounds good

I think there are two reasons why I reuse my characters. One, I'm too lazy to think up a new one every time.

I hear ya!

Two, I think it's fun to explore more eras of their lives, and fun to keep them all in one extended family.

Yes, I agree.

And I have no preference about Balrogs - I seem to have missed a good RPG by not joining Entmoot years ago - so fightable they are.

I'll be interested to see what you think of my idea about Balrog wounds ...

[Earniel]

Originally Posted by RÃ*an

*hands Eärniel a shopping cart*

OK, I wired some money into your account. Aisle 1 is the house of the Golden Flower; Aisle 2 is the folk of the White Wing; let's see ... Aisle 5 is the people of the Fountain. Just avoid Aisle 13 - the house of the Mole ...

I didn't think the whole House of the Mole was evil, in fact a miner from the House of the Mole could be an interesting character, especially when dealing with the bad name of his House. Hm.... But any survivors from the House of the Mole would -I bet- already have left for Eregion and didn't hang about the sea-side.

Let me run these two characters by you. They're not exactly new, in fact they were originally secondary characters from the Eärniel-story. But I've never really developped their personalities there and this game might be perfect for that. The history may be a little patchy but I can fix that when I've done some more research.

Hallindel and Halweg

They're brother and sister, born in the House of the Harp in Gondolin. They were in their teenage years when the place went down and grew up in the Settlement at the Mouths of the Sirion. When the sons of Fëanor destroyed the settlement, both ended up in different groups of survivors, thinking the other dead. Neither of them managed to reach the safe haven of the Isle of Balar until the end of the War of Wrath. Hallindel wandered with a small group through the ruins of Beleriand while Halweg and his companions were surprised by orcs and taken to the dungeons of Angband.

Hallindel is a pleasant, optimistic soul. She's fond of music with a preference for flutes. She usually carries her own reed-flute with her. She has a keen eye and her years of wandering before the War of Wrath has left her with some skill with the bow and sling. She's of average height, with dark hair and blue-grey eyes.

Halweg is due to his stint in Angband, less social and forth-coming than his sister, although he is neither moody or brooding. He's proud without being arrogant and with an appreciation for beauty in all art forms. He does not resemble his sister much aside from the Noldorin dark hair and grey-blue eyes. He's a jewel smith by trade but he is not afraid to draw a sword when needed, which he prefers to a bow. (Maybe just a little because his sister is better with the latter.) His wife Losseloth has departed West after the War of Wrath due to injury.

How does these two sound?

[Edit to add: My skill in the Elven languages is very weak. But if I'm correct in remembering, Hallindel and Halweg are more Sindarin names than Noldorin. Since both lived longer among Sindarin than Noldor for most of their adult life, it is not really surprising both have a Sindarin epessë by which they go by.]