How did Gandalf get his stuff back?

Wulažg · 04-19-2002, 04:40 PM

Wulažg · 04-19-2002, 04:44 PM

What I mean is, after he fought the Balrog at the tower of Zirakzigil, he was transparent and I don't think he could have gotten back Narya and Orcrist. The staff could be explained in that he got a new position, but he has the Ring of Fire and Orcrist later on in Lor and he didn't cart them out.

***azalea*** · 04-19-2002, 04:52 PM

Good question.
I wondered in the movie about how he had his staff again after escaping from Orthanc, but I figured I must have missed it in the excitement, that Saruman must have had it up there when Gwihar came and Gandalf grabbed it away or something.
As far as the stuff after Moria, maybe it's possible that, like Sauron after the fall of Numenor, he was able to carry the ring somehow even though he did not have physical form. This is just a theory. Of course that doesn't explain Orcrist, but maybe he was able to go back to where he had dropped it and get it? Not sure about that.

Wulažg · 04-19-2002, 10:16 PM

Sauron in Numenor? The ring was forged much, uch later, after Celebrimbor made the other rings in Eregion. You're right though, the movie went by too fast to tell. He had the staff when he got picked up at Orthanc in the book at least. Anyway, he couldn't have gotten back without the Eagle's help and in Return of the Ding it specified that Gwaihir only carried him three times.

Aragorn_iz_cool · 04-19-2002, 10:24 PM

OK Not to be rude. But- uh-huh gandalf really got ORCRIST back- FROM THE BREST OF THORIN IN HIS GRAVE NEAR THE LONELY MOUNTIN? I don't think so!! GLAMDRING is gandalf's sword! Orcrist is it's mate but belonged to THORIN!

Khadrane · 04-20-2002, 12:31 PM

Aragorn_iz_cool, you could have been a little nicer...

Quote:

I wondered in the movie about how he had his staff again after escaping from Orthanc, but I figured I must have missed it in the excitement, that Saruman must have had it up there when Gwihar came and Gandalf grabbed it away or something.

I have wondered that too! I noticed it the first time, but I thought I had missed something. The second and third times I saw the movie, I still didn't see how he got it back. Weird.

***azalea*** · 04-20-2002, 01:59 PM

Maybe he just goes to Wizard Staffs - R - Us when he needs a replacement!

Orcrist, Glamdring, I think we all knew what we were talking about.

Walaug, I got my info from a website that had a Frequently Asked Questions list and read about Sauron carrying the Ring back there. I haven't finished the Silmarillion yet, but I was able to look up the place where it talks about it -- It's in "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age". It says "The world was broken, and the land was swallowed up, and the seas rose over it, and Sauron himself went down into the abyss. But his spirit arose and fled back on a dark wind to Middle-earth, seeking a home." This comes after the making of the Rings. The essay quotes Tolkein from Letters (#211) as saying "Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred born on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of domination minds now largely depended".
As I said I haven't finished the Silmarillion yet, so I don't know for sure, but it seems to be pretty reliable. The essay was written by Erik Tracy. (Also, I don't have "Letters", so I can't check to verify that quote from Tolkein.)

Oh, also in the book I don't remember it ever saying that Saruman took his staff. Maybe that's another "dramatic license" PJ took!

Wulažg · 04-20-2002, 03:47 PM

Sorry I forgot that Eregion was in Second Age near the middle(1697). He may have very well have gone to "staffs r us" for a new one, aka Radagast or requested a new one since hewas more powerful then. He could have gotten out the ring but Glamdrig? I know he had telekinesis, he ripped Gimli's axe out of his hands, but I don't think he was doing that well after the battle with the Balrog.

Wulažg · 04-20-2002, 03:49 PM

Besides, he used his staff for the telekinesis stunt(like in the movie!!)(at least the didn't make that stunt up out of thinair)

Menelvagor · 04-20-2002, 09:41 PM

Well, it makes sense that when the Valar sent him back to ME with a stronger body and mind, they would also give him a stronger staff. Glamdring though... hm, well maybe Gwiahir was a nice birdie and picked it up to when he retrieved Gandalf...

Ñólendil · 04-20-2002, 10:07 PM

Quote:

What I mean is, after he fought the Balrog at the tower of Zirakzigil, he was transparent and I don't think he could have gotten back Narya and Orcrist. The staff could be explained in that he got a new position, but he has the Ring of Fire and Orcrist later on in Lor and he didn't cart them out.

Glamdring and Narya may have been waiting for Gandalf on the Peak when he returned from Death, and maybe he carried them with him when Gwaihir came by to pick him up. I know it was Galadriel who clothed him in white. His staff was broken on the Bridge, and I suppose he must have come by a new one somehow, though both staffs were grey ash-wood staffs.

Quote:

Well, it makes sense that when the Valar sent him back to ME with a stronger body and mind, they would also give him a stronger staff.

Tolkien says in a Letter that when Gandalf died, he left Space and Time altogether. He was sent back by the One, not the Valar. [/nitpick]

Menelvagor · 04-21-2002, 05:24 PM

Really? I didn't know that. I feel like a little ragtag dangling at the tail of a wizard.

Elf Girl · 04-21-2002, 05:28 PM

Maybe he got a new one in Lorien...

***Alcuin*** · 11-04-2019, 06:52 PM

This one is pretty straightforward.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ñólendil

Glamdring and Narya may have been waiting for Gandalf on the Peak when he returned from Death, and maybe he carried them with him when Gwaihir came by to pick him up. I know it was Galadriel who clothed him in white. His staff was broken on the Bridge, and I suppose he must have come by a new one somehow, though both staffs were grey ash-wood staffs.

I don’t know where Ñólendil is these days – Hey! Ñólendil! Come back and visit! – but he’s pretty sharp. His answer is correct: Glamdring the sword and Narya the Ring of Power were both with Gandalf when he died on Zirakzigil. When Gwaihir the Windlord lifted him up, Narya was still on his finger; it was only a matter of cleaning up that the great Eagle would return for the sword while Gandalf recuperated in Lórien with Galadriel. His staff, of course, Gandalf broke on the Bridge causing it to break so that the Balrog fell into the abyss; Saruman must have failed to notice that the staff Gandalf the White bore was not the same as Gandalf the Grey’s: perhaps that detail was easily overlooked: after all, Saruman had other more pressing matters on his mind at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ñólendil

Tolkien says in a Letter that when Gandalf died, he left Space and Time altogether. He was sent back by the One, not the Valar.

Also correct.

Ah, Ñólendil, Ñólendil, where are ye?

04-19-2002, 04:40 PM	#1
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	How did Gandalf get his stuff back? How did Gandalf get his stuff back?

04-20-2002, 01:59 PM	#7
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Maybe he just goes to Wizard Staffs - R - Us when he needs a replacement! Orcrist, Glamdring, I think we all knew what we were talking about. Walaug, I got my info from a website that had a Frequently Asked Questions list and read about Sauron carrying the Ring back there. I haven't finished the Silmarillion yet, but I was able to look up the place where it talks about it -- It's in "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age". It says "The world was broken, and the land was swallowed up, and the seas rose over it, and Sauron himself went down into the abyss. But his spirit arose and fled back on a dark wind to Middle-earth, seeking a home." This comes after the making of the Rings. The essay quotes Tolkein from Letters (#211) as saying "Though reduced to 'a spirit of hatred born on a dark wind', I do not think one need boggle at this spirit carrying off the One Ring, upon which his power of domination minds now largely depended". As I said I haven't finished the Silmarillion yet, so I don't know for sure, but it seems to be pretty reliable. The essay was written by Erik Tracy. (Also, I don't have "Letters", so I can't check to verify that quote from Tolkein.) Oh, also in the book I don't remember it ever saying that Saruman took his staff. Maybe that's another "dramatic license" PJ took! Last edited by azalea : 04-20-2002 at 02:03 PM.

04-21-2002, 05:28 PM	#13
Elf Girl Lurker Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lothlórien Posts: 3,419	Maybe he got a new one in Lorien... __________________ There's antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium...

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04-19-2002, 04:44 PM	#2
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	What I mean is, after he fought the Balrog at the tower of Zirakzigil, he was transparent and I don't think he could have gotten back Narya and Orcrist. The staff could be explained in that he got a new position, but he has the Ring of Fire and Orcrist later on in Lor and he didn't cart them out.

04-19-2002, 04:52 PM	#3
*azalea* Long lost mooter Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 3,342	Good question. I wondered in the movie about how he had his staff again after escaping from Orthanc, but I figured I must have missed it in the excitement, that Saruman must have had it up there when Gwihar came and Gandalf grabbed it away or something. As far as the stuff after Moria, maybe it's possible that, like Sauron after the fall of Numenor, he was able to carry the ring somehow even though he did not have physical form. This is just a theory. Of course that doesn't explain Orcrist, but maybe he was able to go back to where he had dropped it and get it? Not sure about that.

04-19-2002, 10:16 PM	#4
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Sauron in Numenor? The ring was forged much, uch later, after Celebrimbor made the other rings in Eregion. You're right though, the movie went by too fast to tell. He had the staff when he got picked up at Orthanc in the book at least. Anyway, he couldn't have gotten back without the Eagle's help and in Return of the Ding it specified that Gwaihir only carried him three times.

04-19-2002, 10:24 PM	#5
Aragorn_iz_cool Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 119	OK Not to be rude. But- uh-huh gandalf really got ORCRIST back- FROM THE BREST OF THORIN IN HIS GRAVE NEAR THE LONELY MOUNTIN? I don't think so!! GLAMDRING is gandalf's sword! Orcrist is it's mate but belonged to THORIN!

04-20-2002, 03:47 PM	#8
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Sorry I forgot that Eregion was in Second Age near the middle(1697). He may have very well have gone to "staffs r us" for a new one, aka Radagast or requested a new one since hewas more powerful then. He could have gotten out the ring but Glamdrig? I know he had telekinesis, he ripped Gimli's axe out of his hands, but I don't think he was doing that well after the battle with the Balrog.

04-20-2002, 03:49 PM	#9
Wulažg Elven Warrior Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 306	Besides, he used his staff for the telekinesis stunt(like in the movie!!)(at least the didn't make that stunt up out of thinair)

04-20-2002, 09:41 PM	#10
Menelvagor Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: lurking on the edge of conversations Posts: 924	Well, it makes sense that when the Valar sent him back to ME with a stronger body and mind, they would also give him a stronger staff. Glamdring though... hm, well maybe Gwiahir was a nice birdie and picked it up to when he retrieved Gandalf...

04-21-2002, 05:24 PM	#12
Menelvagor Elf Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: lurking on the edge of conversations Posts: 924	Really? I didn't know that. I feel like a little ragtag dangling at the tail of a wizard.