Gandalf's Showdown with Saruman: What Happened?

***Valandil*** · 04-08-2018, 06:49 PM

When Gandalf goes to Orthanc and humbles Saruman, just what does he do to him? Is Saruman's power reduced? Or is it basically the same - but he has been humbled and shown that his hopes of becoming "a power" have been dashed?

Clearly Gandalf has supplanted him. Yet, I have no doubt that Saruman remained a Maia. Was the power alloted to his earthly shell diminished?

***Earniel*** · 04-09-2018, 09:12 AM

Gandalf, when first re-appearing to the remainder of the Fellowship, says that in a way he now IS Saruman, the way Saruman was supposed to be. So.. perhaps there can only be one? *cue Highlander music*

Perhaps the Istari gain strenght from how well they perform their duty? that would explain how Gandalf became stronger after his defeat of the Balrog, whereas Saruman continually seem to loses his original power to compel, influence and convince people. He cannot convince Gandalf to choose his side. From there on he starts to use fear and force in earnest. He doesn't rely on GrÃ*ma alone to gain control of Rohan, he is already amassing an army for the final shove.

04-08-2018, 06:49 PM	#1
*Valandil* High King at Annuminas Administrator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Wyoming - USA Posts: 10,752	Gandalf's Showdown with Saruman: What Happened? When Gandalf goes to Orthanc and humbles Saruman, just what does he do to him? Is Saruman's power reduced? Or is it basically the same - but he has been humbled and shown that his hopes of becoming "a power" have been dashed? Clearly Gandalf has supplanted him. Yet, I have no doubt that Saruman remained a Maia. Was the power alloted to his earthly shell diminished? __________________ My Fanfic: Letters of Firiel Tales of Nolduryon Visitors Come to Court Ã‘ Ã¡ Ã« ?* Ã³ Ãº Ã© Ã¤ Ã¯ Ã¶ Ã– Ã± Ã‰ Ãž Ã° ÃŸ Â® â„¢ [Xurl=Xhttp://entmoot.tolkientrail.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=ABCXYZ#postABCXYZ]text[/Xurl] Splitting Threads is SUCH Hard Work!!

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04-09-2018, 09:12 AM	#2
*Earniel* The Chocoholic Sea Elf Administrator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N?n in Eilph (Belgium) Posts: 14,363	Gandalf, when first re-appearing to the remainder of the Fellowship, says that in a way he now IS Saruman, the way Saruman was supposed to be. So.. perhaps there can only be one? cue Highlander music Perhaps the Istari gain strenght from how well they perform their duty? that would explain how Gandalf became stronger after his defeat of the Balrog, whereas Saruman continually seem to loses his original power to compel, influence and convince people. He cannot convince Gandalf to choose his side. From there on he starts to use fear and force in earnest. He doesn't rely on GrÃ*ma alone to gain control of Rohan, he is already amassing an army for the final shove.